Why I'm Still a Christian

[pocaracas]

He didn't create mankind all over again. He allowed Noah and his family to survive and the race continued through his line.

huh?

The "great gods" Anu, Enlil, Ninurta, Ennugi, and Ea were sworn to secrecy about their plan to cause the flood.
But the god Ea (Sumerian god Enki) repeated the plan to Utnapishtim through a reed wall in a reed house.
Ea commanded Utnapishtim to demolish his house and build a boat, regardless of the cost, to keep living beings alive.

It was Ea, not your god... and it was Utnapishtim, not Noah...

[Losty]

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Why would an omniscient god entrust such a responsibility to man when it created man to be corrupt, sinful and evil?

god did have to kill off humans for being this way once. Then your omniscient god did it all over again with the same design.

Does that make sense to you Lek?

He didn't create mankind all over again. He allowed Noah and his family to survive and the race continued through his line. He didn't create us to be evil, but rather Adam chose to choose evil. Jesus came to us and redeemed us and through him we have the power to do right if we live by the spirit. So yes, it does make sense to me. He created this world for us to rule over its creatures and he's allowing us the freedom to do that.

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Right, God ordered a lot of mass murder in the bible. He ordered city after city be wiped out by his "hero" at the time, for no particularly good reason. Just one example of an evil monster, but I could go on all day with other examples.

Have you read the bible in entirety Lek, right from start to finish?

Of course, these events mostly probably didn't happen at all, but that's irrelevant to the fact that your God claims credit for such acts and calls them good. Because he's on the side doing it. Like Hitler proclaimed. What's the difference? Maybe God was on Hitler's side?

Really, the only defence I see is "might makes right". God can do what the fuck he likes, because we can't stop him anyway. But ironically, we can stop him. It's happened to all the gods that proceeded him.

Actually, God didn't have to wipe out those cities to be a monster. If he hadn't killed them then, he would have killed them later, maybe by some horrible long-lasting disease, rather than a quick death by nature or by the sword. He's no more a monster to them than he is to babies that he allows to suffer today, and to every person who has ever lived and died. He could have made us all immortal, but the monster made us have to suffer and die before that happens. (For all of you who don't get it, I don't really believe he's a monster.)

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Funny, your description makes him sound like a monster to me.

ETA: hide tags. Love you Stimbo

[Lek]

Actually, God didn't have to wipe out those cities to be a monster. If he hadn't killed them then, he would have killed them later, maybe by some horrible long-lasting disease, rather than a quick death by nature or by the sword. He's no more a monster to them than he is to babies that he allows to suffer today, and to every person who has ever lived and died. He could have made us all immortal, but the monster made us have to suffer and die before that happens. (For all of you who don't get it, I don't really believe he's a monster.)[/hide]

Funny, your description makes him sound like a monster to me.

ETA: hide tags. Love you Stimbo
[/quote]
Thanks. I tried.

[Simon Moon]

Actually, God didn't have to wipe out those cities to be a monster. If he hadn't killed them then, he would have killed them later, maybe by some horrible long-lasting disease, rather than a quick death by nature or by the sword. He's no more a monster to them than he is to babies that he allows to suffer today, and to every person who has ever lived and died. He could have made us all immortal, but the monster made us have to suffer and die before that happens. (For all of you who don't get it, I don't really believe he's a monster.)

Why did he have to kill them at all? Why not just have them become instantly non-existent? Still pretty monstrous behavior, but much more humane than having his 'chosen people' slaughter them, don't you think?

Do me a favor. In your above quoted post, substitute the name 'Kim Jung Un' or 'Hitler' in place of 'God', then read it to yourself. Does the behavior you attribute to your god now sound monstrous to you?

(For all of you who don't get it, I don't really believe he's a monster.)

We know you don't. And that is truly sad.

You have sacrificed your morality to justify the horrible actions attributed to your god in the Bible.

[dyresand]

Thanks. I tried.

You see Lek god to us well Atheists is a monster who is well amoral and yet the only good he did in the bible was create everything and life and after that it pretty much goes down hill after Adam and Eve. god of the bible is not good in any sense of the word good. Because like good parent's they don't favorites at all god does he had in the bible a couple different chosen groups of people. Well then he says to the second go on and kill these other group of people and ironically enough it was his previous people. Is it me or god is trying to hide some evidence or something i don't know. Lets see the pharaoh he hardened his heart so if god didn't more or less the pharaoh more than likely would have let gods people go but this is god were talking about god likes to abuse power on people can't obviously fight back and yes you know what happens from there. Sodom and Gomorrah enough said. The next thing being going to Noah and his family making him and commanding him to build a boat and warn him he is going to flood the earth so yeah. Job he didn't deserve any of what god did to him and his own family when god was finished and gave him back everything he lost twice over was like spitting in his face because you know loss of a child and wife those 2 things could never truly replaced god could have given them back but no. god tells a guy to kill his only son now that is pretty messed up he should never have said that.

Ill list out a few verses of god being evil
2 Chronicles 13:15-18
Exodus 12:29 (already mentioned this with the pharaoh just not in detail)
Numbers 16:41-49 - one would really wonder about this one like seriously people are complaining about god killing them and god kills them... yeah no he is not good.
1 Samuel 6:19
Joshua 6:20-21
2 Kings 2:23-24 - keep god away from children and keep the children away from bears
In Judges 21:1-23
Judges 11:30-39
Judges 14:11-19 - needless killing with the help of god
2 Kings 1:9-10
Genesis 38:9-10 - guy gets killed for having standards
Revelation 9:7-19 - <_< if that doesn't show how fucked up and not good god is nothing will.

[h4ym4n]

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Actually, God didn't have to wipe out those cities to be a monster. If he hadn't killed them then, he would have killed them later, maybe by some horrible long-lasting disease, rather than a quick death by nature or by the sword. He's no more a monster to them than he is to babies that he allows to suffer today, and to every person who has ever lived and died. He could have made us all immortal, but the monster made us have to suffer and die before that happens. (For all of you who don't get it, I don't really believe he's a monster.)

Why did he have to kill them at all? Why not just have them become instantly non-existent? Still pretty monstrous behavior, but much more humane than having his 'chosen people' slaughter them, don't you think?

Do me a favor. In your above quoted post, substitute the name 'Kim Jung Un' or 'Hitler' in place of 'God', then read it to yourself. Does the behavior you attribute to your god now sound monstrous to you?

(For all of you who don't get it, I don't really believe he's a monster.)

We know you don't. And that is truly sad.

You have sacrificed your morality to justify the horrible actions attributed to your god in the Bible.

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Bravo Simon.

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Why would an omniscient god entrust such a responsibility to man when it created man to be corrupt, sinful and evil?

god did have to kill off humans for being this way once. Then your omniscient god did it all over again with the same design.

Does that make sense to you Lek?

He didn't create mankind all over again. He allowed Noah and his family to survive and the race continued through his line. He didn't create us to be evil, but rather Adam chose to choose evil. Jesus came to us and redeemed us and through him we have the power to do right if we live by the spirit. So yes, it does make sense to me. He created this world for us to rule over its creatures and he's allowing us the freedom to do that.

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Lek, I like you, really. But please think this question thru,

How did Adam choose evil if Adam did not know what evil was until after he ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of *GOOD AND EVIL*?

[Ravenshire]

No apology? Very well, I'll forgive you anyway. So the way you reconcile the countless suffering of billions of physical creatures is the belief that the non-physical creator of both the creatures and the suffering "accompanies" us through it? This seems to square it all up for you?

Inquisition torturers accompanied their victims as well...

[robvalue]

Do you actually believe Noah's flood really happened Lek? Are you are aware that it has been thoroughly scientifically debunked? It simply did not happen. In fact, it's a rip off of earlier mythology, like many parts of Christianity.

I really don't know how you can justify to yourself that ordering the slaughter of entire cities, one after the other, is not an evil act. Oh yes, sometimes they kept the virgins for sex slaves and just killed everyone else. Your justification is the people would have died anyway? Why did they need to die, were they all evil, even the babies?

Part of your brain must know this is an indefensible act, and if anyone other than God did it, you'd call it monstrous. But God simply gets a pass. Why does he get a pass?

Hmm... Let's try another. God ordered slaves be released but deliberately interfered with free will to stop the masters releasing the slaves, so that he could send more plagues upon them. How can you justify that?

[Simon Moon]

Part of your brain must know this is an indefensible act, and if anyone other than God did it, you'd call it monstrous. But God simply gets a pass. Why does he get a pass?

Exactly.

The same point I was trying to make above by having Lek substitute the name 'Kin Jung Un' in place of 'God' and see if his justifications still sound okay.

I truly believe that the vast majority of Christians are more moral than the god they believe in. I have seen Christians twist themselves in knots trying to justify the slavery and genocides depicted in the Bible attributed to their god. It is obvious their beliefs are in major conflict with their morality.

William Lane Craig has actually stated that the Hebrews that god ordered to slaughter men, women and children are the ones that really suffered, having to take all those lives.

The best thing that could be said about the god of the Bible, is that he doesn't exist.

[Mudhammam]

I think if Lek spent some time reading other literature written both prior and in the presence of ancient Palestinian culture, he would realize just how barbaric, tribal, and insignificant the Old Testament texts actually come to appear.