Indoctrinating Children in Religion

[Dystopia]

I don't agree with you, it depends on the context - Indoctrination of religious belief may not involve telling kids they'll go to help, it depends on the method being used - I could tell my kids that they must really believe in god because there's lots of evidence and there's none for other gods, and they would believe me (most likely)... Political ideas can be as dangerous if not more than religious ones, and they can cause a lot of hatred and intolerance

And religious indoctrination doesn't involve hatred and intolerance? I'm not saying political indoctrination isn't harmful -- it certainly is -- but I have doubts it can cause as much damage as religious indoctrination.

I agree, it doesn't necessarily mean condemning to hell, but in too many cases, it does.

Pardon me if I get worked up. It's a touchy subject to me, because of personal experiences.

I understand. I am lucky to never have been indoctrinated into any religion.

It can involve hated and intolerance, it just depends. Any kind of indoctrination can lead to hatred and intolerance for those who think differently.

Using the example of political ideas, if I raise my kids to be marxists they'll hate anyone who is upper middle class and rich, if I teach my kids to be far right they'll be racists and xenophobes, if I teach my kids to be very conservative they'll hate liberals, etc.

There is no comparison between this approach and making your child believe what you believe as true. That is horrendous to any free thinking person, unfortunately that description doesn't apply to theists so you wouldn't recognise how repulsive indoctrination really is. Most of you are victims of course after all.

I don't agree with this - All parents do this to an extent, there's always something we believe to be true and teach our children that it is true. For example, I will teach my children that not killing others is a fundamental moral value and I consider it the truth.

This becomes slightly relative because we all believe we are right - So we think what we pass on to the next generation is the truth. Christians don't realize how bad indoctrination is, but they genuinely think they are saving their children's souls. This applies to just about any idea.

We are all narcissistic about our views to some extent, we all think there's truth in our ideas, and we end up passing those to the next generation even if we are not aware of it

I will happily show pros and cons for just about everything, but I'll obviously place an emphasis on what I think is right, every parent does that.

The part I bolded represents an utopian idea because it's impossible to fulfil, there is no impartial education, we are all biased

[The Reality Salesman01]

Yup! My mom tried that on me. But her lifetime of faith without questions was no match for my inquisitive adolescent years. Eventually, the roles were reversed and I realized that if one of us was to get reliable answers from the other, it was her that needed to ask me. I approached everyone that I had once viewed as an authority on religious wisdom with the same challenging scrutiny and examined their beliefs. It didn't take long to realize that none of them had any idea what they were talking about. Not only that, they didn't even offer the same spin. It was no longer a matter of getting answers. In my experience, the more certain people were about their beliefs, the less reliable they were. It's more satisfying to search for more intersting questions. I think indoctrination is fucked up, but I know from experience that parents are no match for the healthy sense of curiosity that all children possess at one time or another, and we must do whatever we can to prevent those who wish to crush it.

[robvalue]

I would hope that I would never "teach" my children anything that I couldn't back up with solid, rational reasons. I would never expect them to believe anything just because I said so, or because I believe it. Of course when they are very young, as I said, I would have to make allowances for their wellbeing and program a bit of health and safety in there. But I would never program in more than was strictly necessary, and I would always plan to back it up later with full explanation.

The idea that I'd raise my kid "atheist" doesn't even make any sense. I'd be happy for them to learn about all religions and I would not tell them what to believe. If they decided they wanted to be a Muslim one day, then they'd be a Muslim.

[Lek]

We have big disagreements on raising children. I believe in allowing my children to benefit from what I have discovered throughout my lifetime. I don't just give them general guidelines and let them loose. If I believe something is better for them, then I teach them that way. We should learn from the experience of those who have gone before us. They'll still be able to go out as adults and evaluate things for themselves.

Here's something on circumcision:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/articl...clares.htm

[dyresand]

We have big disagreements on raising children. I believe in allowing my children to benefit from what I have discovered throughout my lifetime. I don't just give them general guidelines and let them loose. If I believe something is better for them, then I teach them that way. We should learn from the experience of those who have gone before us. They'll still be able to go out as adults and evaluate things for themselves.

Here's something on circumcision:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/articl...clares.htm

Its best to let your children to find a religion on their own rather than put them through brain washing at a young age because later on more than likely their world would come crashing down figuring out its all a lie.

[Norman Humann]

I believe in allowing my children to benefit from what I have discovered throughout my lifetime. I don't just give them general guidelines and let them loose. If I believe something is better for them, then I teach them that way.

I doubt anyone would disagree that every parent does what they think is best for their child. The point that it seems you're missing is, religion is a question of belief. You keep equating it to caring for the child's health, but that isn't an accurate comparison. You do it because you believe it will grant them eternal life after they die, but you can't know that. And in the process, you might be doing damage to them -- hypothetically, I'm not trying to accuse you of anything in any way.

I am well aware that my parents didn't mean any harm in what they were doing, but harm was done nonetheless. Harm that is difficult to recover from and could've been avoided.

They'll still be able to go out as adults and evaluate things for themselves.

Let's hope that they do, but critical thinking is a skill, not an innate ability. If you don't teach them to think for themselves, they won't.

[Ravenshire]

Lek wants to whitewash the argument with "We have big disagreements on raising children." He won't even try to counter any of the issues raised but simply points to an article about circumcision that refers to (but doesn't link to) an inconclusive study done by the CDC without any information about who provided the funding for the study. As with anything, if you want to know who benefits, follow the money.

Lek, I hope that you don't, as so many "good christer" parents do, use the threat of hell to keep your kids in line.

[Zenith]

I've read the first posts of this thread and I'm thinking... how idealistic it would be to have it only like this:

parents have some special "right" to treat their kids the way they desire ... as if kids are just objects/property and not individuals with their own rights to free thinking.

In my country, a lot of people believe that it's the STATE's responsibility to educate the children, not the parent's, and the fact that "many times both parents have jobs, so they don't have time to spend with their children!" is actually justification enough to throw it all on the shoulders of the schools to educate children in religion as well. So they don't have time to go to church, they don't send their children to church, but they expect that the priests come into the school to "educate" all children into the same religion. It's said that the religious education (basically, indoctrination) is invaluable to the formation of children, something like "no child must be left behind".

I really wished people here were generally / all of the opinion that it's the parents' own responsibility to educate their children the way they want, not the state to educate them the way the (majority of the) parents want. But I think this has been a tradition for many years.

[Thumpalumpacus]

We have big disagreements on raising children. I believe in allowing my children to benefit from what I have discovered throughout my lifetime. I don't just give them general guidelines and let them loose. If I believe something is better for them, then I teach them that way. We should learn from the experience of those who have gone before us. They'll still be able to go out as adults and evaluate things for themselves.

I trusted my son to use his innate intelligence, after I imparted basic principles of thinking and judgement. As he grew older and his cognitive abilities increased, I granted him more freedom.

But I never taught him to be atheist or theist, because that sort of stuff does not affect his safety or well-being. Such teaching would be only programming.

Of course, I wasn't interested in raising a copy of myself. My son's individuality was evident from a very early age, and I taught him to both think solidly, and to trust his judgement. Giving him only rote lessons in "god says this" about whatever issue would have been criminal neglect, in my mind.

He is a goddamned good 17-year-old young man who has a great heart and a great brain.

Here's something on circumcision:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/articl...clares.htm

Except that the Bible doesn't justify circumcision with clearly questionable health benefits. It justifies maiming the genitalia of infants as part of an agreement with your fictional god.

[Ravenshire]

Except that the Bible doesn't justify circumcision with clearly questionable health benefits. It justifies maiming the genitalia of infants as part of an agreement with your fictional god.

Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding! We have a winner!

Exactly the reason my dick was snipped. It had nothing to do with health issues and everything to do with a gawd that is obviously overly concerned with male genitalia.