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RE: Easy arguments against the Bible, and religion as a whole
December 24, 2011 at 5:25 am
(December 24, 2011 at 2:27 am)chipan Wrote: i was trying to keep is simple but i guess i can't do that here. of course wealth doesn't grant happieness the bible talks all about that. it says things like it's easier to fit a cammel through the eye of a needle than a rich man into the kingdom of heaven. i proposed wealth b/c that most equates to happieness to most humans. you cannot stereotype all christians that way. everything on this earth cannot grant happieness, that's why it has to come from somewhere else. as i've been told, we all have a God shaped hole inside ourselves. God normally does not treat wealth as a gift, but a responsibility. like david was a shepard but God made him king, not as a gift, but so he could do his will to lead his people. blessed are the poor for greater are their rewards in the kingdom of heaven. so yes, rich does not equal happieness, but i don't think you know what does so i choose the most common view. and putting slavery on christians just dirty. during the civil war was the north athiests and the south christians? no, both were mostly christians so don't give me that BS.
You grovel weekly to your deity..begging this that and the other thing (prayer)...this constitutes the behaviour of a slave (you MUST humble yourself before your deity)..... some one who is free and in charge of their own life would not do this or behave this way.
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
RE: Easy arguments against the Bible, and religion as a whole
December 24, 2011 at 7:36 am
(December 24, 2011 at 2:27 am)chipan Wrote: and putting slavery on christians just dirty. during the civil war was the north athiests and the south christians? no, both were mostly christians so don't give me that BS.
Didn't you realized that your shitty Bible scriptures condones slavery, sex slavery, rape and misogyny?
RE: Easy arguments against the Bible, and religion as a whole
December 24, 2011 at 12:58 pm (This post was last modified: December 24, 2011 at 12:59 pm by chi pan.)
"You grovel weekly to your deity..begging this that and the other thing (prayer)...this constitutes the behaviour of a slave (you MUST humble yourself before your deity)..... some one who is free and in charge of their own life would not do this or behave this way."
alright, prayer is not a form of groveling. it is a way to communicate with God and establish a personal relationship with God. the goal of all christians should be (but often isn't) to be able to way they are a friend of God. that would be a big deal and something i hope to achieve someday. the relationship humans have with God is more like a father son relationship than a master servant relationship. God is tolarent and so is a father, but a master is not.
"Didn't you realized that your shitty Bible scriptures condones slavery, sex slavery, rape and misogyny?"
no, there is no place in the bible where it condones slavery. in fact God saves his people from slavery and if he condoned it he would not feel the need to do this. though there is no specific commandment that says slavory is not allowed b/c it is ultimately a business of the government and the bible is for individuals not governments and the bible stays out of government affairs. sex slavery? perhaps you refer to abstanence? well you may be limited to sex with your wife but i don't see how this is slavery, both take vows and agree to this. in fact, most couples agree that it would be romantic to be the one and only sex partner of their significant other. rape? the bible most definately does not condone rape and that is actually punishable by death in the old testiment. misogyny? well the bible doesn't say a lot about women and all traditions of women not having rights of men are those not put down by the bible but the people themselves. if you think you know the bible more then me prove it by pointing out scribture to prove me wrong.
RE: Easy arguments against the Bible, and religion as a whole
December 24, 2011 at 2:00 pm
(December 24, 2011 at 12:58 pm)chipan Wrote: "You grovel weekly to your deity..begging this that and the other thing (prayer)...this constitutes the behaviour of a slave (you MUST humble yourself before your deity)..... some one who is free and in charge of their own life would not do this or behave this way."
alright, prayer is not a form of groveling. it is a way to communicate with God and establish a personal relationship with God. the goal of all christians should be (but often isn't) to be able to way they are a friend of God. that would be a big deal and something i hope to achieve someday. the relationship humans have with God is more like a father son relationship than a master servant relationship. God is tolarent and so is a father, but a master is not.
"Didn't you realized that your shitty Bible scriptures condones slavery, sex slavery, rape and misogyny?"
no, there is no place in the bible where it condones slavery. in fact God saves his people from slavery and if he condoned it he would not feel the need to do this. though there is no specific commandment that says slavory is not allowed b/c it is ultimately a business of the government and the bible is for individuals not governments and the bible stays out of government affairs. sex slavery? perhaps you refer to abstanence? well you may be limited to sex with your wife but i don't see how this is slavery, both take vows and agree to this. in fact, most couples agree that it would be romantic to be the one and only sex partner of their significant other. rape? the bible most definately does not condone rape and that is actually punishable by death in the old testiment. misogyny? well the bible doesn't say a lot about women and all traditions of women not having rights of men are those not put down by the bible but the people themselves. if you think you know the bible more then me prove it by pointing out scribture to prove me wrong.
There's too many immoral scriptures in the Bible, so I'll quote few in James King Version:
Slavery
"Both your male and female slaves, whom you shall have, shall be of the nations that are round about you; of them shall you buy male and female slaves."
- Leviticus 25:44
"Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him."
-Ephesians 6:5
Rape
"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found. Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days"
-Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Sex Slavery
"..And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money..."
-Exodus 21:7-11
And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword. And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts. And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho. And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp. And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
-Numbers 31:7-18
Misogyny
"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.."
-Deuteronomy 22:23-24
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law."
-1 Corinthians 14:34
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection."
-1 Timothy 2:11
(December 24, 2011 at 12:58 pm)chipan Wrote: no, there is no place in the bible....
Oh, yes, there is. If you research the bible more....
RE: Easy arguments against the Bible, and religion as a whole
December 25, 2011 at 10:59 am
Easy argument against this dumb assumption like:
-Atheism is religion!
-Ha! You believe in no God! That's belief! - You are religious!
-Ha! You don't believe in god! That's still belief! [Sadly some of theists think that]
It's stupid to label someone as religious over something they don't believe, but let's use their dumb logic against them If Christians don't believe in the Thor, does that imply that they have 2 religion? If they don't believe any deities, so forth. You get the idea.
RE: Easy arguments against the Bible, and religion as a whole
December 25, 2011 at 11:44 am
alright, these definitions of slavery do not fit what we thought of slavery in the 1800's. this speaks of people selling themselves for a temporary amount of time and it always streases not to treat them with rigor. this is no worse than an endentured survent was in the 1600's. really, the only time slaves in this country were mistreated was when plantations became popular and they treated them like crap. when slaves first came to america they were treated as family (often too much like family). they were in a household, wore nice clothes, fed well but even in the bible slaves weren't like that they were in that life by choice not for their entire lives.
your passage on rape is not talking about reward for rape, it's talking about punishment. if the woman were betrothed, then the punishment would be death but since she's not betrothed he is forced to marry her and pay her family 50 shekels of silver. it's a shameful act and i'm sure no one would think highly of the couple if that's how they got together. one thing you must understand is that women didn't really have a choice when it comes to picking their husbands. the parrents had the choice in the matter b/c everyone was betrothed.
most of these other passages about women are merely speaking of the laws of the land, not laws of God himself. here i have changed the perspective of what slavery really was, and refuted the fact that the bible condones rape. also, yes parents were allowed to sell their daughters as slaves, but that was the law of the land and they would have to get married to have sex.
it's hard to understand many things in the bible if you don't understand the way of life of the culture of the time.
RE: Easy arguments against the Bible, and religion as a whole
December 25, 2011 at 11:55 am
atheism isn't a religion for what they don't believe, they're a religion for what they do believe. you can say you have no religion if you say i don't care how the universe came to be and i don't care if there's a god or not. if you say "there is no god" then that's taking a religion. and no, atheists are not religious b/c they have no religous practices. religous refers to one's practices to their religion and religion is what refers to one's personal belief of important questions of life. for atheism, they say we have no higher porpose to any higher being b/c they do not exist. that is their belief, that our physical world is all there is and a human soul is simply a figment of our imagination. there is no way to prove it but they believe it reguardless. they have faith that is the truth.
RE: Easy arguments against the Bible, and religion as a whole
December 25, 2011 at 12:07 pm
1. The bible is the word of god, according to every xtian i've ever met. are you saying that the laws of the land, according to the bible are the parts that aren't the word of god? If so, who decides which verses are to be interpreted at land laws, and god's laws?
2. You made an extraordinary point. The bible talks a lot about the way of life, and culture at the time. That was thousands of years ago. Do you think that gay sex is a sin, or was it just the law of the land? Do you pick and choose verses from the scripture that suit you're own prejudices? If you don't then you should not make up so many excuses for the abhorrent and extremely outdated parts, and really live by the word of your god. Otherwise, how could you not be considered a hypocrite?
3. Did you really just try to romanticize slavery in America, by saying they were treated well? Because that's pretty disgusting. What would Jesus think?
If Christians don't believe in the Thor, does that imply that they have 2 religion? If they don't believe any deities, so forth. You get the idea.
