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RE: Tentatively Christian; looking for a reasonable discussion
March 23, 2015 at 1:41 pm
If Christianity is true, most people are being deceived by the devil and sin. If that is true, then it would be more likely that Christians are being deceived as well.
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
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RE: Tentatively Christian; looking for a reasonable discussion
March 23, 2015 at 1:42 pm
(March 23, 2015 at 11:53 am)YGninja Wrote:
Ah, WLC missing the elephant in the room, as always...
The universe, at Valenkin's "start", was a bunch of elementary particles, fields (since Higgs, these include the particles, too), and little more.
From these building blocks everything we know has been made... has been created - with or without a conscious cause, things have been created - stars, galaxies, planets, nebulae... bacteria, birds, humans.... chairs, TVs, iPhones, Artificial intelligence....
The "everything that begins to exist has a cause" refers to these things and the causes are, at the heart of it, fields, for the most part.
Concerning the universe itself, the fields and elementary particles, we cannot apply the same principle.
I mean, maybe we can, but we don't know if we can, so it's best to refrain from pronouncing anything about it.
Maybe some form of field created the fields we know of... maybe not. (I'm leaning to some sort of field - the quantum vacuum camp seems to lead that way)
If we overlay the possible absence of the temporal coordinate on the non-universe thing that would "cause" the Universe into existence, then the word "cause" loses meaning, too.
----
But I prefer the part where, even granting that yes, there may very likely be a cause to the Universe, who can say it's a conscious cause?
Who can say it's a god?
Who can say it's the particular god the Abraham allegedly first encountered and described to the people?
Who can say it's the god that impregnated a virgin girl in the middle east and whose son then had to die to atone for the problems generated by the first man that god had made a few years earlier?
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RE: Tentatively Christian; looking for a reasonable discussion
March 23, 2015 at 1:45 pm
(March 23, 2015 at 1:19 pm)Nestor Wrote: (March 23, 2015 at 12:57 pm)YGninja Wrote: Im not attacking atheists, im just warning the guy. If Christianity is true, atheists will be dishonest, so always check out claims made by atheists. If he takes everything you say as true, he's effectively already assuming Christianity is wrong. Is that how YOU evaluate claims people make? You think they only require justification if the person making them doesn't regularly and "symbolically" eat your dead Messiah? YGninja, you forgot to mention that we are pawns in a great Luciferian conspiracy. 
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RE: Tentatively Christian; looking for a reasonable discussion
March 23, 2015 at 1:59 pm
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2015 at 2:00 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(March 23, 2015 at 12:57 pm)YGninja Wrote: If Christianity is true, atheists will be dishonest, so always check out claims made by atheists. If he takes everything you say as true, he's effectively already assuming Christianity is wrong. If Rhythmism is true, you will be dishonest, so always check out claims made by you. If you take everything you say as true, you're effectively already assuming Rhythmism is wrong.
Checkmate.
-Rhythmism, for reference, is the belief that Rhythm is right and you are wrong by cosmic edict.
........I'm just saying, and all that. 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Tentatively Christian; looking for a reasonable discussion
March 23, 2015 at 3:20 pm
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2015 at 3:20 pm by Mudhammam.)
Do I, as a Rhythmist or Rhythmian, get to open any gifts when my time in life expires? And do I get permission to threaten people with terrorizing stories about what happens to the bad boys and girls when the cosmic Christmas morning finally arrives? And do I get to define "bad" as anyone who disbeliefs or disobeys my interpretion of your posts? If so, SIGN ME UP!
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: Tentatively Christian; looking for a reasonable discussion
March 23, 2015 at 3:26 pm
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2015 at 3:28 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You get to open -all of the gifts-, threatening people is compulsory, about that last bit:
In that you are absolutely allowed to define as bad anyone who disbelieves in your interpretation, because they're wrong...and they are similarly empowered to do so...and since everyone thinks that everyone else is wrong and bad...and since it can be shown that everyone else is bad and wrong-no matter who you ask.....except Rhythm,.......this establishes that Rhythmism is, in fact, true -since Rhythmism is defined as the belief that you are wrong, and Rhythm is right.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Tentatively Christian; looking for a reasonable discussion
March 23, 2015 at 4:08 pm
What happened to Griffin Hunter?
I think we've finished kicking the crap out of the Kalam now, despite a few people holding its corpse up like a ventriloquist's dummy.
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RE: Tentatively Christian; looking for a reasonable discussion
March 23, 2015 at 4:38 pm
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2015 at 4:39 pm by Pizza.)
Pizzatheism is the only way, fools!
Burn in the lake of pizza sauces and molten cheese!
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
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RE: Tentatively Christian; looking for a reasonable discussion
March 23, 2015 at 4:40 pm
Nice try, Pizz-atheist. We're all committed Rhythmists now.
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
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RE: Tentatively Christian; looking for a reasonable discussion
March 23, 2015 at 4:40 pm
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2015 at 4:41 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Yeah..well, Pizz, we'll just see which of our isms draws the more competently violent adherents and settle it the traditional way. Deal?
(pft...you don't even have proof...talk about a cut rate cult)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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