The Reasons why "Just Following Jesus" Doesn't work

[Edwardo Piet]

You believe in the "trinity".... let's focus on that BS right now rather than hinduism.

[Rekeisha]

Yes, God does make the rules and they are based on His perfectly good nature. He is the bar at which all people will be judged and your fabrications will not save you from the truth. You can't account for what is right without Him because He is the standard. You can pretend otherwise but it is at your own risk. This is not a threat but a warning.

You're not very good at this, are you? 


"God is real. God is good. You are bad. You will see." is for the drive-by's, Rekeisha.
You should be able to respond to a difficult question or significant statement with more than mantra at this point.

Fortunately God can work through anyone. I am here to warn you and my ability to answer you to your satisfaction will not be an excuse when you face God.

[Cyberman]

What is this, fundie clichés week?

[Rekeisha]

So you just know that some physicist says that no one knows and you accept it without question? Do these physicist possess  infinite knowledge?

The only reason why their is order in the universe is because God keeps it in order. He made the universe and he keeps it in order don't by magic but because he posses infinite knowledge and power and wants it to still exist. You may not understand it but that doesn't make it magic.

You get extraordinary evidence every day but you choose not to accept it. The fact that there is life on the earth is extraordinary. The universe is vast, amazing and full of wonder and yet finely tuned. Our bodies have DNA which has a purpose and a reason to be there.  It is not evidence that you lack.

What the heck is "infinite knowledge"? Do you mean to say that if we don't know everything, we don't know anything?

That's the most ridiculous claim I've ever heard. After the claim that the universe only has laws of physics because Divine Magic Makes It So, of course. Hard to get more ridiculous than that.

What have we said here that gives you the first inkling that we atheists accept anything at all  "without question"?!?

I accept what physicists say because I have a good general knowledge of the claims of physicists, and know how the scientific process works: if a physicist puts an idea out there that is poorly supported or based on bad math or false assumptions, the other physicists tear him/her apart for it. It's the Scientific Method, and it's specifically designed to protect against the errors of individual human brains, however smart they are. I can do a lot of physics, myself, and have personally done the math to prove many concepts I used to just have to accept from experts who knew more than I did, but some of it will forever remain beyond my capacity. That's okay, because I have seen firsthand how the process of proving this stuff works, and I am confident that the physicists will continue to keep one another in check.

You need to be very careful speaking about what the "purpose" of DNA is; you're now on my personal turf. Not only am I a former biologist with a specialty in viral genetics, but my fiancee (a devout Christian and fellow evolutionary biologist) works as a researcher in a genetics lab. I definitely know what the proofs are for evolution, common descent, and so on. There is nothing "finely tuned" about our DNA... in fact, it's a marvel of inefficiency and malfunction, which is why cancer and deformities are things. The process is good enough to keep the DNA reproducing, but it's far, far from "finely tuned". They universal laws may appear "finely tuned", in that they work together to make the universe operate as it does, but the universe is also a mass of chaos and randomness; you need only look at the surface of any moon or planet to see what I mean. Even if one of the random asteroids or comets doesn't get us, there are dozens of ways the planet could wipe most of humanity out, tomorrow. The universe, to me, gives every appearance of being the product of random chance operating according to the way the particles just-so-happen to interact, a way which is demonstrable mathematically (that's why they knew the Higgs Boson would exist before they actually found it... math!), and there is no indication that it has or needs a divine influence to keep itself going. You're welcome to make an argument, of course, but be aware that I will spot bullshit the moment it lands on the screen.

What you call "extraordinary evidence", I call magical thinking and a lack of actual understanding of the world around you.

You made the statement that "no one knows" How can you know this to be true without knowing what everyone knows? (Or know someone who does know what everyone knows.)
You you know about DNA so you should see the wonders of DNA. It is not evidence you lack for believing in God.

[Rekeisha]

Ugh please use hide tags!

I would if I knew how

[Cyberman]

Like this:

Code:

[hide]execrable wall of text[/hide]

[Edwardo Piet]

I have decided that if I am to be welcomed into the modding community in the future, I will be more than happy to be the "cleaner" who does all the adding hide tags and cleaning up stuff.... I am so sick of the mess I would be more than happy to do that +1

[Redbeard The Pink]

The same way your Gaud does: by willing it to be so because he's Brahma. What more explanation do you need?

So you are also a Hindu?

No, dipshit, I'm an atheist. Reading is for winners. I'm just highlighting that the same logic that works with Gaud works with Brahma. I also notice you didn't bother addressing anything else I said. Running out of Babble verses?

[Crossless2.0]

So you are also a Hindu?

No, dipshit, I'm an atheist. Reading is for winners. I'm just highlighting that the same logic that works with Gaud works with Brahma. I also notice you didn't bother addressing anything else I said. Running out of Babble verses?

Apparently, the point is completely lost on him.

[Rekeisha]

Jokes aside, that's a complicated question, especially since the word "order" is another one of those that means something different depending on what you're actually talking about. In short, order exists because the materials and energies in the Universe exert consistent forces on each other, causing them over time to form increasingly organized systems once they enter each other's field of influence.

why do they innately have these forces?

Justice doesn't require anything. God invented justice, so whatever justice requires is required by justice because God said so.


The thing you don't seem to be understanding is that a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient being would be capable of creating a world where free will is possible but evil is not. If justice requires punishment for sin, it's because Gaud defined justice and sin and himself requires sin to be punished to meet his standard for justice. If he HAS to have the evil and HAS to punish it because justice is some nebulous idea that he can't change and to which he is beholden, then HE IS NOT ALL-POWERFUL.


Simply put: if your Gaud is all-powerful and created everything, then he is personally responsible for ALL evil, and he is personally responsible for the strict requirements of "justice." If he is not personally responsible for ALL evil and has no say in what justice requires, then he is NOT all-powerful.

Yes we know what justice is because it is in God's nature. Again like I said He doesn't make us sin but He does take responsibility for us.  He has made a way for us to obey Him. Hell is not the only option we can actually enjoy God. You act as if He is going to make you disobey Him. You choose your own way He doesn't make you disobey Him. He actually went to great lengths in order for you to be free from your sins and enjoy Him.
 

All tools except for materially and empirically proving his own existence, right?

No, there is ample evidence in all creation. Your unwillingness to accept that is your choice

Ok, murder yes, but eating shellfish? Wearing mixed-cloth garments? Men dressing in women's clothes? These things aren't inherently harmful to anyone, so why is Gaud so offended by them?

There are always purposes for God's rules and you can read them in the context of the book it was written and the people it was written to to understand them. Or you can take it out of context to support your presuppositions.
 

I don't see the world as broken, and I don't see things in terms of what "should be." Everything just is. There is no goal or intent behind the Universe, so it can't be "broken." Whatever happens happens, for better or worse.

If the worlds isn't broken there is nothing wrong with God's actions. My beliefs are not wrong and there is no better or worst.
 

Yeah, pretty much. I generally don't do things to others if I wouldn't want them done to me. Pretty simple.

You should have more respect for yourself. From the way I have seen you behave on this forum God treats you immensely better. He laid down His life for you.
 

You were 5. You were prone to believe anything, and you are probably unaware of the ways in which you'd already been introduced to the Gaud concept by that age. Of course the Bible didn't sound strange to you. Santa Claus wouldn't sound strange to you either if nobody had challenged your belief in him until you were an adult.

Conjecture and I never believed in Santa Clause, the tooth fairy or the Easter Bunny.