Is Human Reproduction Un-Ethical?

[Mudhammam]

But what is the point of continuing the human-species? Their contributions, if any, benefit only to themselves, but they themselves do not need to exist for anything. Nobody would miss us if we were all extinct. If we arose by chance and are here for nothing, this is the total sum of all that any of us can contribute, in the large scheme of things.

This is what bothers me most.

I don't follow. I don't think I can say that the world would be worse off if humans ceased to exist, and for many species it would probably be better off. But that doesn't translate to, "I need a reason to justify my existence" other than, "I exist," which is the source of meaning and goodness... for me, anyway, and hopefully for my progeny.

[downbeatplumb]

Is Human Reproduction Un-Ethical?

it is if you do it right.

[Esquilax]

But what is the point of continuing the human-species? Their contributions, if any, benefit only to themselves, but they themselves do not need to exist for anything. Nobody would miss us if we were all extinct. If we arose by chance and are here for nothing, this is the total sum of all that any of us can contribute, in the large scheme of things.

This is what bothers me most.

So, do humans not get a say in whether they have a reason to exist, in your mind? Do you like existing?

[robvalue]

My brother signed up to the "voluntary human extinction society". It's really cool! All it means is you're not going to have kids.

People have gone mental at him before, saying he's trying to kill people, or something.

Big difference between not having your own kids and trying to actively kill people who are already alive.

[Pyrrho]

My brother signed up to the "voluntary human extinction society". It's really cool! All it means is you're not going to have kids.

People have gone mental at him before, saying he's trying to kill people, or something.

Big difference between not having your own kids and trying to actively kill people who are already alive.

Do you mean "The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement?"  They have a web site:

http://vhemt.org

[JuliaL]

Hear me out.

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If no God or after-life exists;
There is no other point to being, than what we make of our lives here; 
And, if some children will find in this life great fulfillment, while others find incredible pain and suffering- which we cannot possibly foreknow; 

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To wager that a child will enjoy life, to a degree greater than the sum of the pain and suffering;

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Which is to wager with somebody elses life, potentially exposing another human being to immense grief and pain;
Which is needless, considering the fact that their is no reason for us to be, or to continue to exist;
And, that the, act of having children is not necessary for any purpose other than our own gratification; 
Thus, having children is a selfish, greedy act which can impose great pain on another human being;
Having children is thus un-ehtical and immoral. 

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What do you think? 

In previous generations,
those who acted on the chance that, on balance, the outcome would be suffering which
outweighed happiness to the point that it was not ethical to have and raise
a child are less (barring accident) represented in our population.
Those who took the converse position had us.
So, robvalue's brother notwithstanding, we're the offspring of the optimists or the less careful.
No doubt, that'll be the result going forward.

[robvalue]

That sounds fair.

Pyrro: yes that sounds like it It's just a statement, really. Obviously you're not actively making humans go extinct, except by maybe influencing others to also have no children. I haven't signed up for it, but maybe I should! I should check out that website, I just remember him talking about it once.

Kill babies! No, not kill babies.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Calling reproduction immoral because people are sometimes unhappy is like deeming flight to be unsafe transport because sometimes planes crash.

[Pyrrho]

Calling reproduction immoral because people are sometimes unhappy is like deeming flight to be unsafe transport because sometimes planes crash.

That's not a good comparison, because people are very frequently unhappy and in pain, but planes rarely crash, considering how many flights there are.

If we look at the world today, there are plenty of people who have quite a lot of troubles that are obvious enough, and then there are those living "lives of quiet desperation."  There are a lot of people with existential angst whose troubles are often not seen.

Also, there is nothing at all wrong with having never been conceived.  There is no downside to that.

[robvalue]

LI asked my parents why they had children.

My mother said, "I don't know."

My father said, "I wanted someone to look up to me."

They told me at one point I was their favourite. And then another time, they said one of brothers was worth more than me and my other brother put together.

I'm sure I have some sort of trauma I've blocked out from early childhood. I am so jumpy it is absolutely ridiculous, a sudden sound and I near leap out of my skin. EMDR failed to surface it and the guy seemed torn.