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RE: "Thou shall not kill" commandment is hypocritical?
April 24, 2015 at 4:36 pm
(April 24, 2015 at 7:56 am)pocaracas Wrote: So we have Moses, bringing "his people" from Egypt to Mt. Sinai where Jehova gives him the ten commandments...
And one of them is simply "you shall not murder", but... but... what did god do with all the plagues he sent down on Egypt, particularly the one with all the firstborns, if not murdering?
What sort of moral authority does such a being have to tell his "children" not to murder when that's exactly what he did a couple of pages back?!
The first few commandments don't deal with the well being of humans at all. God's top priority on that list of laws is him.
"Thou shalt not kill" isn't as much hypocritical as it is arbitrary. Is it wrong to kill someone in self defense if your life is in danger? The hypocrisy is when it is combined with the top priorities of the list. It teaches you not to value humanity, it teaches you to value the tribe. So if you buy "thou shalt not kill" within the context of that list, he isn't saying protect all humans, he is saying it is ok to kill humans of other tribes. The "thou shalt not kill" meant only those within your tribe.
But yea, combine it with all the violence God commits and or sanctions his tribes to do on others, "thou shalt not kill" is merely an arbitrary law designed to promote him and what he wants.
RE: "Thou shall not kill" commandment is hypocritical?
April 24, 2015 at 4:40 pm
If the list were non tribal and universal the top of the list would be "don't be selfish", "don't rape", "don't own slaves" "dont physically harm others unless your life is in danger" and "I don't care if you worship me or not as long as you are good". A
That would be a universal list. The list of laws in the Commandments are arbitrary and only designed to get you to follow him.
RE: "Thou shall not kill" commandment is hypocritical?
April 27, 2015 at 3:47 pm
(April 24, 2015 at 7:56 am)pocaracas Wrote: So we have Moses, bringing "his people" from Egypt to Mt. Sinai where Jehova gives him the ten commandments...
And one of them is simply "you shall not murder", but... but... what did god do with all the plagues he sent down on Egypt, particularly the one with all the firstborns, if not murdering?
What sort of moral authority does such a being have to tell his "children" not to murder when that's exactly what he did a couple of pages back?!
All murder's are killings. Are all killings murder?
If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists... and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible... would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?
RE: "Thou shall not kill" commandment is hypocritical?
April 27, 2015 at 4:01 pm (This post was last modified: April 27, 2015 at 4:05 pm by Alex K.)
(April 27, 2015 at 3:55 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Depends on the translation you use.
"Let us open our bibles to Deuteronomy 5, and make sure you have the newly translated 'kill the infidels' edition which we provided at the front desk"
(April 24, 2015 at 11:37 am)Judi Lynn Wrote:
(April 24, 2015 at 11:03 am)Alex K Wrote: Are you saying we are God? Whatever they mean by "we are made in His image" can't possibly extend to all properties.
I'm saying that if someone were to take the bible literally, then the phrase "God made man in his image", would have to literally mean just that. All that personifies him would have to apply as well. And if he's going to tell Moses on some tablet that "Thou shall not kill", then he definitely needs to lead by example, for man was "created in His image". Make sense? I hope that was clearer.
Yes, but I think we can safely say that that's not the interpretation of "in his image" which most monotheists use, no?
(April 24, 2015 at 4:09 pm)Pyrrho Wrote:
(April 24, 2015 at 8:15 am)Alex K Wrote: Nonsense. Why should the same rules apply to us as to the createur of the universe?
In the Bible, there are many examples of God commanding people to kill. So it isn't just a matter of God killing people Himself; God commands people to kill people. So God isn't keeping his commands consistent.
Again, depending whether the original text says murder or kill, and what their definition of murder was back then. It is very plausible that back when it was written they didn't intend it as, or interpret it as, an abolition of the death penalty, and so killing in the most general sense is surely not what the writers had in mind.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
RE: "Thou shall not kill" commandment is hypocritical?
April 27, 2015 at 4:48 pm
(April 27, 2015 at 4:01 pm)Alex K Wrote: ...
(April 24, 2015 at 4:09 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: In the Bible, there are many examples of God commanding people to kill. So it isn't just a matter of God killing people Himself; God commands people to kill people. So God isn't keeping his commands consistent.
Again, depending whether the original text says murder or kill, and what their definition of murder was back then. It is very plausible that back when it was written they didn't intend it as, or interpret it as, an abolition of the death penalty, and so killing in the most general sense is surely not what the writers had in mind.
I wasn't thinking of the death penalty. I was thinking of the instances when God commanded specific acts of murder. For example, the extermination of the Amalekites in 1 Samuel 15 that God commands. There are other such examples, as when Abraham is told to kill Isaac, and Abraham is ready to do it. If Abraham were following the prohibition on murder, he would have refused to do it. But in the story, his willingness to do it is supposed to be good, yet it is an example of someone ignoring the 'thou shalt not kill [murder]' commandment.
If you have an issue with those examples, we can consider the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites, and any others that I am forgetting, that God commanded to be murdered.
These are all examples of God specifically commanding that people do things that God specifically forbade in the commandment to not murder.
(What a bother it is to specify the specific kinds of killing in the Bible! God directly killing people, God commanding the death penalty for specific "crimes," God commanding specific acts of murder. It is the last of these that interests me in this case, and is what involves the inconsistency in God's commands.)
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
RE: "Thou shall not kill" commandment is hypocritical?
April 27, 2015 at 4:53 pm
(April 27, 2015 at 3:55 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Depends on the translation you use.
I'm asking from a societal perspective, specifically yours. Is every instance of killing murder?
If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists... and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible... would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?
RE: "Thou shall not kill" commandment is hypocritical?
April 28, 2015 at 10:18 am
(April 27, 2015 at 5:41 pm)pocaracas Wrote:
(April 27, 2015 at 4:53 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: I'm asking from a societal perspective, specifically yours. Is every instance of killing murder?
Considering the present-day definitions of those two words... I... guesss.... not.
In the original text, is the same Hebrew word used for "kill" in Exodus 20:13(thou shall not kill) and "die" in Exodus 11:5 (and all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die)?
Exodus 20:13
Kill-רָצַח
murder, slay with premeditation
Exodus 11:5
die- מוּת die as a penalty = be put to death: specifically, inflicted by God
If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists... and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible... would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?
