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First Triple Crown winner in 37 years!
#11
RE: First Triple Crown winner in 37 years!
(June 7, 2015 at 12:23 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I'm sure the humans get rich off of this.  Not so sure what the horse gets out of it.

Pretty certain the sort of traits bread into a race winning horse is not the sort of trait which would optimize the animal for surviving in the wild.   So perhaps the horse gets Darwinian extinction in the medium term out of it.
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#12
RE: First Triple Crown winner in 37 years!
(June 7, 2015 at 1:06 pm)Chuck Wrote:
(June 7, 2015 at 12:59 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Aside from being treated like royalty for the rest of his life and mating with every thoroughbred filly in sight, there's always the possibility that he is intelligent enough an animal to understand at some level, and take pleasure in, the competition itself. 
Perhaps he is intelligent enough to despise the competition staged for human benefit, like and would rather be free to chase those fillies that have a good chance surviving in nature rather than having been optimized for human preference.

Perhaps.
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#13
RE: First Triple Crown winner in 37 years!
(June 7, 2015 at 1:09 pm)Chuck Wrote:
(June 7, 2015 at 12:23 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I'm sure the humans get rich off of this.  Not so sure what the horse gets out of it.

Pretty certain the sort of traits bread into a race winning horse is not the sort of trait which would optimize the animal for surviving in the wild.   So perhaps the horse gets Darwinian extinction in the medium term out of it.
Someone not raised around horses I see.

In groups, human bread horses released into the wild actually do fine.  They have the same lifespan of wild horses.  Read up on it.

And horses are like dogs in some ways, they LOVE to be around humans.  These aren't wild animals like whales, here.  They have indeed been domesticated for thousands of years, they are natural social creatures, and if treated well, like a dog, are very loyal and loving to their human companions. 

Do you advocate we let all our dogs and cats go back into the wild as well?

Any animal can be treated cruelly by humans, but racehorses usually are not, or you don't get a very good racehorse.  And yes, after these 3 races, he'll get put out to stud, where he will get tons of sex and freedom for the rest of his life, as well as continued affection from his human caretakers, and probably die of old age somewhere around age 25, about 10 years older than a wild horse.  
Sounds DREADFUL.  Rolleyes
“Eternity is a terrible thought. I mean, where's it going to end?” 
― Tom StoppardRosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
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#14
RE: First Triple Crown winner in 37 years!
Aroura do you or have you kept horses? I agree with you about all this. Horses and dogs are part of the natural world that bear our stamp.
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#15
RE: First Triple Crown winner in 37 years!
(June 7, 2015 at 12:59 pm)Crossless1 Wrote:
(June 7, 2015 at 12:23 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I'm sure the humans get rich off of this.  Not so sure what the horse gets out of it.

Aside from being treated like royalty for the rest of his life and mating with every thoroughbred filly in sight, there's always the possibility that he is intelligent enough an animal to understand at some level, and take pleasure in, the competition itself. 


It's a horse.
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#16
RE: First Triple Crown winner in 37 years!
(June 7, 2015 at 1:49 pm)whateverist Wrote: Aroura do you or have you kept horses?  I agree with you about all this.  Horses and dogs are part of the natural world that bear our stamp.

Oh yes, I grew up on a farm (my husband teases it was Little House on the Prairie).  We raised horses, chickens, and rabbits for the most part, but also had a pig, and a turkey at one point.  We also boarded other people's horses for money once in a while, when they were on vacation or whatever.

My mom had her own horse, Tommy. He was part Arabian, part Morgan so he was very graceful and also very friendly.  He licked us all the time.  Horse slobber, lol. 
I got my own horse at age 7, a welsch pony we named Rusty.  She was not as good tempered as Tommy, but it turned out she was preggers when my mom bought her, so we got an extra horse a few months later for free, and then she became better tempered.  
My mother was gentle with horses, and even hated the term "breaking".  But for lack of a better word...she green broke the colt (named Scout), and showed me how to train a horse without ever hitting or hurting.  It took time and patience, but I guess that is where I learned to be patient with people and other animals as well.

Sadly, my mom had a bad hip, and had to have hip replacement surgery when I was a teen.  I tried to take care of the horses for her, but because she could no longer ride, she felt it was cruel to keep them.  Horses need to be ridden, they need the exercise and companionship of it, and 3 was too many for one teenage girl to care for.  So we ended up selling the horses.  Sad

A few years later I moved to the big city (Portland) to go to college, and although I've ridden horses, and even took care of my landlords horses once to pay part of my rent, I've never owned them since.

Heart horses, and if I felt they would be better off in the wild, I would advocate that (the way I do about Orcas, for instance), but they are domesticated now, the same as house cats and dogs. 
“Eternity is a terrible thought. I mean, where's it going to end?” 
― Tom StoppardRosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
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#17
RE: First Triple Crown winner in 37 years!
(June 7, 2015 at 2:14 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
(June 7, 2015 at 12:59 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Aside from being treated like royalty for the rest of his life and mating with every thoroughbred filly in sight, there's always the possibility that he is intelligent enough an animal to understand at some level, and take pleasure in, the competition itself. 


It's a horse.

Yes, and?

You ever play with a dog?  Do they seem to enjoy it?  Or are they too stupid to understand the game on some level?  As non-human animals go, horses are pretty intelligent.
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#18
RE: First Triple Crown winner in 37 years!
Sure.  I throw a tennis ball and he gets it and runs off with it.  Dumbass doesn't understand the game at all.

I think you are anthropomorphizing the horse.
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#19
RE: First Triple Crown winner in 37 years!
(June 7, 2015 at 2:30 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Sure.  I throw a tennis ball and he gets it and runs off with it.  Dumbass doesn't understand the game at all.

I think you are anthropomorphizing the horse.

It's possible.  I'm merely suggesting that there might be more to it, from the animal's point of view, than some mindless mechanical response.  I'm not an animal behaviorist and can't speak on the subject with any authority.  In any case, I don't have much personally hanging in the balance of the argument other than to repeat that the lot of a Triple Crown champion is probably enviable as horses go.
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#20
RE: First Triple Crown winner in 37 years!
(June 7, 2015 at 2:30 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Sure.  I throw a tennis ball and he gets it and runs off with it.  Dumbass doesn't understand the game at all.

I think you are anthropomorphizing the horse.

Even if you are right and they are too stupid to understand the game, do you agree they still seem to enjoy it?  
Are we being cruel to these animals by keeping them domesticated, or do they enjoy their human companionship and human games?
“Eternity is a terrible thought. I mean, where's it going to end?” 
― Tom StoppardRosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
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