Is the ''Only a minority of Muslims are radical'' true?

[TheMessiah]

Before you write this off, read this site.

It has compromised about 50-60 pieces of research which link to large-scale surveys to track religious trends.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/...-polls.htm

Some of these opinions are scary, here is a snippet:

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans

32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)
A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans: 
(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)
About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/p...09_rpt.pdf

Those figures are scary. They are not all terrorists, but as Sam Harris said in his video with Cenk from The Young Turks, majority populations in many Islamic countries hold beliefs which cannot be described as anything other than radical.

(Here is the video btw if anyone wants to see TYT get bitch slapped).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVl3BJoEoAU

In regards to Western Muslims:

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/1...2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

NOP Research: Hardcore Islamists comprise 9% of Britain's Muslim population;
Another 29% would "aggressively defend" Islam;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/1...2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY
Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-...hezbollah/
ICM Poll: 11% of British Muslims find violence for religious or political ends acceptable.
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/200...0Nov04.asp
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/...h-islamist


Motivaction Survey (2014): 80% of young Dutch Muslims see nothing wrong with Holy War against non-believers.  Most verbalized support for pro-Islamic State fighters.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2014/11/young-dutch-turks-radical-views-worry-mps-call-for-more-research.php/

BBC (2015): Following the Charlie Hebdo attacks, 27% of British Muslims openly support violence against cartoonists. Another 8% would not say, meaning that only 2 of 3 surveyed would say that the killings were not justified.  
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31293196

And Sharia

83% of Pakistanis support stoning adulterers
78% of Pakistanis support killing apostates 
[/url]http://www.realcourage.org/2009/08/pakistan-78-percent-call-for-apostate-deaths/

Center for Social Cohesion: 40% of British Muslim students want Sharia
[url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340599/WikiLeaks-1-3-British-Muslim-students-killing-Islam-40-want-Sharia-law.html]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340599/WikiLeaks-1-3-British-Muslim-students-killing-Islam-40-want-Sharia-law.html
http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/pdf/IslamonCampus.pdf

ICM Poll: 40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1...in-UK.html

GfK NOP: 28% of British Muslims want Britain to be an Islamic state
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawO...ForAll.pdf
NOP Research: 68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/1...2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Free speech + homosexuality

Policy Exchange: 61% of British Muslims want homosexuality punished

http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawO...ForAll.pdf



NOP Research: 62% of British Muslims do not believe in the protection of free speech;

Only 3% adopt a "consistently pro-freedom of speech line"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/1...2011-04-06

http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY



ICM Poll: 58% of British Muslims believe insulting Islam should result in criminal prosecution

http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/200...0Nov04.asp
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist

[vorlon13]

Any number of Moslem majority cities have no difficulties in staging million or more marchers in their various death to America campaigns.  I see a majority of Moslems as threats, therefore,


BECAUSE THEY ARE.

[Dystopia]

Firstly, if you really dislike biased sources like rationalwiki I think you should abstain from using websites like therligionofpeace that are clearly ran by anti-Islam militants who would never dream of posting favourable statistics about Muslims.

Secondly, when it comes to "attacks on Americans" - Not only am I not surprised, but if I lived in the middle east I would 100% approve those attacks without second thought. Why are Americans a special snowflake? Do you expect to pretend to be the world's police and not receive any hatred in return? Grow up. There are people in the west who support nuking the middle east.

Thirdly - Where do British, French and Dutch Muslims come from? This is an honest question. I am Portuguese, and one of the curious things about the Muslim population is that, excluding the latest refugee immigrants, the first and second generations were composed by highly educated, intelligent and secular Muslims from the colonies - Many had friends in the government, were peaceful, and you have never seen a terrorist attack done by Muslims, despite the fact there are probably 30000-50000 of them (in 10 million people). I think this has to do with where immigrants come from. An immigrant from Pakistan or Saudi is probably more likely to be a bigot than someone from Angola, Singapore, etc.

[Regina]

I don't think it matters. Minority or no, the radicals are the loudest and hold the political power to oppress the non-radicals.

[TheMessiah]

Firstly, if you really dislike biased sources like rationalwiki I think you should abstain from using websites like therligionofpeace that are clearly ran by anti-Islam militants who would never dream of posting favourable statistics about Muslims.

Secondly, when it comes to "attacks on Americans" - Not only am I not surprised, but if I lived in the middle east I would 100% approve those attacks without second thought. Why are Americans a special snowflake? Do you expect to pretend to be the world's police and not receive any hatred in return? Grow up. There are people in the west who support nuking the middle east.

Thirdly - Where do British, French and Dutch Muslims come from? This is an honest question. I am Portuguese, and one of the curious things about the Muslim population is that, excluding the latest refugee immigrants, the first and second generations were composed by highly educated, intelligent and secular Muslims from the colonies - Many had friends in the government, were peaceful, and you have never seen a terrorist attack done by Muslims, despite the fact there are probably 30000-50000 of them (in 10 million people). I think this has to do with where immigrants come from. An immigrant from Pakistan or Saudi is probably more likely to be a bigot than someone from Angola, Singapore, etc.

Can you explain to me how it is bias?

The polls cited are from global and national surveys; they are done on a large scale, many Muslims do have good views, for example from that list, many disapprove of terrorism - but significant populations believe that people should die for leaving the religion.

They aren't fringe organisations - that's why Sam Harris and others have referred to them. PEW is a respected organisation.

Here is a PEW Global statistic.

Pew Research (2010): 82% of Egyptian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
70% of Jordanian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
42% of Indonesian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
82% of Pakistanis favor stoning adulterers
56% of Nigerian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-...hezbollah/

More PEW

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-...hezbollah/

[TheMessiah]

I don't think it matters. Minority or no, the radicals are the loudest and hold the political power to oppress the non-radicals.

It depends on what is considered ''radical''?

Many Egyptian Muslims don't believe in terrorism, but more than 80% of them believe in death for apostasy, which is clearly a radical belief.

[Mister Agenda]

Can you explain to me how it is bias?

There are 49 Muslim-majority countries in the world. Maybe more than six or seven need to be surveyed to get a picture of Islam. And maybe it shouldn't be restricted to Muslim majority countries, millions of Muslims live in countries where they are a (persecuted in some cases) minority; their opinions ought to count for something too. Radical needs to be defined, and so does 'sharia', which means different things to different Muslims. If you surveyed Americans and found out how many would like 'Biblical Law' instituted, you wouldn't think they were all for going back to stoning adultresses, would you?
It's biased because it leaves way too many Muslims out, and given the site, it's likely that the countries with the most alarming responses were cherry picked.

[TheMessiah]

Can you explain to me how it is bias?

There are 49 Muslim-majority countries in the world. Maybe more than six or seven need to be surveyed to get a picture of Islam. And maybe it shouldn't be restricted to Muslim majority countries, millions of Muslims live in countries where they are a (persecuted in some cases) minority; their opinions ought to count for something too. Radical needs to be defined, and so does 'sharia', which means different things to different Muslims. If you surveyed Americans and found out how many would like 'Biblical Law' instituted, you wouldn't think they were all for going back to stoning adultresses, would you?
It's biased because it leaves way too many Muslims out, and given the site, it's likely that the countries with the most alarming responses were cherry picked.

I have a few problems with this this. I think the comparison is dishonest.

The difference between Islamic law and ''Christian'' law is that Islamic law is actually enforced in a dozen nations; do you have evidence that most Americans want a ''Christian law''? Because from what I can tell, America is firmly embedded with a separation between religion and state.

Firstly, the results from those global surveys are by no means ''cherry picks'' --- they are asking direct questions about their beliefs on Islam. These beliefs are not small ''cherry picks'' because many of them are embedded within law. Such as death for apostasy. They are also asking them about current events --- such as the Mohammed cartoonists.

Secondly, the countries in those polls are major Muslim countries; Pakistan, Egypt, Nigeria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc...these are major Muslim nations which make up large chunks of the Muslim populace and have such laws.

Thirdly, which countries are Muslims ''persecuted''? The poll shows results from countries which Muslims are the minority --- for example, the majority of Muslims believe Mohammad cartoons should be punished

The site itself did not publish the studies, what published the studies was PEW organisations and other global surveys; the same surveys which sample other populations. Hence I ask...what did PEW get wrong? It's up to you to substantiate it, but I don't think this is alarming because most of this is embedded within Islamic law anyway.

[Dystopia]

Can you explain to me how it is bias?

A website named "thereligionofpeace" that only posts negative surveys, news and events concerning Muslims is clearly following a political agenda. Why should it be more valuable than rationalwiki?

The polls cited are from global and national surveys; they are done on a large scale, many Muslims do have good views, for example from that list, many disapprove of terrorism - but significant populations believe that people should die for leaving the religion.

Ok - How many countries? What's the methodology used? How many people were surveyed? What questions were asked? What are the main characteristics of the surveyed demographics? Are they middle class? Rich? Poor? Are they from peaceful cities or areas where armed conflicts exist on a large scale?

They aren't fringe organisations - that's why Sam Harris and others have referred to them. PEW is a respected organisation.

And? I don't care about what Sam Harris thinks, since I realized it's hard to distinguish his quotes from Hitler's. Sam Harris makes the mistake of blindly believing that doctrine must determine who you are, forgetting that it's the other way around - Otherwise, every believer in every religion would hold the exact same view. Also, Harris seems to have a complex of persecution and believes in the Eurabia conspiracy theory - He thinks people who disagree are "Islam apologists", believes everything against him is political correctness and never doubts he's right. That's the psychological behaviour of a fundamentalist. So fuck Sam Harris.

 
Here is a PEW Global statistic.

Pew Research (2010): 82% of Egyptian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
70% of Jordanian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
42% of Indonesian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
82% of Pakistanis favor stoning adulterers
56% of Nigerian Muslims favor stoning adulterers

You can't simply post statistics and hope people buy into it. You need to provide your opinion, the methodology used, and why do you think the surveys are right. Additionally why should Egypt be that important?

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-...hezbollah/

See above

[TheMessiah]

Can you explain to me how it is bias?

A website named "thereligionofpeace" that only posts negative surveys, news and events concerning Muslims is clearly following a political agenda. Why should it be more valuable than rationalwiki?

The polls cited are from global and national surveys; they are done on a large scale, many Muslims do have good views, for example from that list, many disapprove of terrorism - but significant populations believe that people should die for leaving the religion.

Ok - How many countries? What's the methodology used? How many people were surveyed? What questions were asked? What are the main characteristics of the surveyed demographics? Are they middle class? Rich? Poor? Are they from peaceful cities or areas where armed conflicts exist on a large scale?

They aren't fringe organisations - that's why Sam Harris and others have referred to them. PEW is a respected organisation.

And? I don't care about what Sam Harris thinks, since I realized it's hard to distinguish his quotes from Hitler's. Sam Harris makes the mistake of blindly believing that doctrine must determine who you are, forgetting that it's the other way around - Otherwise, every believer in every religion would hold the exact same view. Also, Harris seems to have a complex of persecution and believes in the Eurabia conspiracy theory - He thinks people who disagree are "Islam apologists", believes everything against him is political correctness and never doubts he's right. That's the psychological behaviour of a fundamentalist. So fuck Sam Harris.

 
Here is a PEW Global statistic.

Pew Research (2010): 82% of Egyptian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
70% of Jordanian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
42% of Indonesian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
82% of Pakistanis favor stoning adulterers
56% of Nigerian Muslims favor stoning adulterers

You can't simply post statistics and hope people buy into it. You need to provide your opinion, the methodology used, and why do you think the surveys are right. Additionally why should Egypt be that important?

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-...hezbollah/

See above

1. Because that site isn't attempting to get a Muslim's view on what they think about non-related things. It is specifically asking them about Islam; not anything which is unrelated to Islam.

The Muslims were asked clear-cut questions: ''Do you believe in death for apostasy?'', ''Do you believe in honor killings?'', ''Thoughts on homosexuality?'' etc. These are basic questions which aren't surprising to Muslims given that such beliefs are in their own law.

The site isn't even smearing Muslims as terrorists, just posting what the general beliefs are of Muslims. Are most Muslims terrorist? No. But do signifcant numbers of Muslims believe in death for apostasy? Yes.

These are surveys which are done on global scales, even if they were ''cherry picked'' --- these are concerning, and scary results.

2. Right, why can't I post polls? 

Instead of posting one poll - I am providing you with 50. The site I linked to gives you links to the research and methodology.

Here is an example from PEW - http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/musl...hezbollah/

3. Cenk is definitely an apologist - it was clear when he got trashed in that debate. How is Harris akin to Hitler?