Evolution and natural selection ARE the gods of this world!

[comet]

The key word is minimum.  And we understand we really don't have to base a "non belief in A"  because somebody else has a Belief in A".  "fact" ... The universe is one giant data processor.

so, a minimum "human reason".  Based on only what we know.  Which is not a lot.  Evolution seems to be a process that passes on information so that an organism can just "live as is" or adapt to conditional changes in its surroundings in order to, lmao, this will sound funny, to pass on information.  The net effect (of the biosphere) is to make a more complex organism that will to be able to better react to the system around it.

then to evaluate the validity of such a claim we can try the commonsense sense check.  What seems more reasonable with the information we have today?  "no-nothing at all" goal or a minimum goal of passing on information?  

As far as I know, no, evolution isn't exactly passing on information to aid adaptability as you mentioned. Natural selection would be closer to that as it is the process which preserves the "information" that has adapted and discards the rest. Evolution is just a series of random changes and it causes both the changes which survive and those that get discarded, so I don't think we can assume it has the "reason" that you mentioned.

You are correct. reproduction does that. "evolution" is really not even 'one theory". It is a unifying theory like plate tectonics. So when I talk about it I leave a bunch out because I feel that if people are commenting or suggesting what it is or is not they understand what going on. in the end, it's all about minimizing the amount of energy being transferred through the system. Sometimes it is slow and long, like entropy of photons increasing over time. other times its really fast entropy increase. There are a few ways to come up with a "reason". Literal religious people take it too far, but claiming "no reason" just doesn't match observation. And we don't know enough to call it even an "illusion of purpose". What we have, is all that we have.

[henryp]

Evolution applies to present times as well. We still can observe it happening

For sure, the small scale stuff is a no brainer.  Birds get better beaks.  But that's some trivial stuff compared to some of the stuff that went down way back when.

[Aoi Magi]

Reason in this instance even if we can use that term is no different than cause and effect, to assume a purpose at this point is not necessary.

[Faith No More]

i said this in an earlier post and people called me dumb, but i stand by what i said cause look at this.

evolution is the designer, it's goal is to create the strongest organism it can. natural selection works in hand and weeds out the weak organisms...the slowest deer die, the people with depression kill themselves, and stupid people die doing stupid things.

and i been in the psych system and its complete bs cus they just give condescending advice and take ur money, but in the end they are getting in the way of natural selection, sure they can keep people patched together with meds, but in the end its only passing on bad genes. but hey why not, they didn't become an 88 billion industry by helping people. thats why with my mental illness i wont have kids, also cus girls dont like me cus their instincts can see my symptoms and that im not a good mate, but im also too scared to end it all but just trying to enjoy what i can in life and we will all be dead before we know it cus theres only 36,500 days in 100 years and time never stops.

so really if u think about it, atheism is more impressive than christianity - christianity says god made us and has a plan for us, but we can't see him and he can't help us because of free will, but you should believe because people tell you to.

atheism is miracles in action, u can look back and see the process of evolution and the fact that we are even alive and out of all the sperm cells the fact that we even made it and are a part of all this is cooler than anything in the bible and people don't realize that cus they think "oh life isn't impressive there are over 7 billion peopel on earth" but on a larger scale its pretty cool if u think about it. also when u think there isn't a god looking out for you, you are more thankful for all the good things you do have in life considering how many people have such horrible luck being paralyzed/starving/etc.

I don't know which is worse, the "u" for "you" or the fact that there isn't a single capital letter in that post.

[The Grand Nudger]

Evolution and NS lack the key attribute ascribed to divinity.  They are not -like us-, and so, as gods..useless -to us-. You can't cut a deal with evolution, you can't bargain with NS. Neither makes promises, neither intercedes on our behalf.

[comet]

Reason in this instance even if we can use that term is no different than cause and effect, to assume a purpose at this point is not necessary.

Yes, I agree, you may not need a "reason", but that's a personal emotional stance.  Logic dictates we line up what we have and see what it's telling us.  your stance has too much personal emotion associated with it for me.  With what we know right now, it is more reasonable to say there is a reason than there is to claim no reason at all.  "cause and effect" is how the universe works.  How you used "cause and effect" is like stating there is no reason for the pieces being assembled like a car because it uses cause and effect.  The car works by cause and effect, the reason is transporting my lazy behind.

 It's like with the notion of illusion.  If nothing has a "reason" then what we have is the reason.  Using "no reason" allows some people the wiggle room to making up self justifying logic. That keeps us in this religious mess because the observations point to a reason.  Just because we don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't true

[Aoi Magi]

"Reason" can be defined as
1) a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event.
2) the power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgements logically.

If we go for definition 1, then yes, evolution has a reason so does everything else. If we go for definition 2, then no, THAT type of claim for "evolution" is not logical and is emotional. So please define what you mean by "reason".

[comet]

First let me thank you for honestly challenging me and forcing me defend, rethink, and reword my "belief" in this topic past the normal shit kicking stupid atheist. Good show for you.

no one said it was "thinking" as in complex processing on the level of our brain. But when looking at the formation of the brain, it was formed in a more complex system that did data processing. That's just a simple fact of life as they say. weather it is knowingly doing it I don't know.

if we look at how evolution forms a life form. It is as logical it can be. The particle interactions in the system "caused and effected" a set of particle interactions that "problem solved" in order to reproduce in the most efficient manor with the resources available. And dna , rna, and protein production most certainly can be thought of a probability matrix or information processing "reasoning".

Also, Life was preplanned in that we were going to be here at the moment of the big bang. That's just simple. In effect, the brain uses cause and effect, so does evolution. So really now we have more of a 1.5 out of 2 definitions. It is not 1 to 1.

the we can use common sense with the definition of #2. Nobody claims it is "thinking" like you or me. So number doesn't even fit, but as we see, the universe as a data processer clearly can be linked to the standard model . It is in main stream physics, so I am not saying anything controversial here.

so as it stands, with a real lack in understanding for us all, but based on what we do know, "a reason", a "purposes", even if it is unclear to what depth they are, is more rational than "no-nothing" reason. In regards to "reasoning", the verb, or using cause and effect to logically work through a problem, evolution may not be a human brain, but it is certainly is a set algorithms more sophisticated than most computers.

[IATIA]

Also, Life was preplanned in that we were going to be here at the moment of the big bang.

Say what! Can you source this for me? Your god thing will not work without proof of a god, so what other evidence do you have for this ridiculous claim?

[comet]

Reason in this instance even if we can use that term is no different than cause and effect, to assume a purpose at this point is not necessary.

Also, Life was preplanned in that we were going to be here at the moment of the big bang.

Say what!  Can you source this for me?  Your god thing will not work without proof of a god, so what other evidence do you have for this ridiculous claim?

err, ima atheist dude.  all I said was we were going to be here at the big bang.  The exciting stuff was over in less than 1 second.  That's basic stuff.