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Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 4:08 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 5:47 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
Do you, as atheists, believe that human life has inherent value? (this means human life has value, in and of itself, unconditionally)
Definition of inherent (as per webster):
a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute
If so, why do you believe this and how did you come to that conclusion?
(PS - No agenda here, just honestly curious about what you think and why you think it. If you do not want to hear my opinions, don't ask. I promise not to talk about them otherwise.)
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Does human life have value?
June 21, 2015 at 4:11 pm
Value is a malleable, relative concept. Everything has value.
As far has human life goes, it all has value to varying degrees. For instance, my life is more valuable than that of someone who rapes and murders a child, but my life has less value than that of someone who builds children's hospitals.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Does human life have value?
June 21, 2015 at 4:14 pm
Everything has some value. As a Human, I normally ascribe Humans more value than other things. I don't think everyone has equal value, and I do believe people can do things that remove that value from them.
And if this topic delves into "the meaning of life", I believe that's a personal question.
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RE: Does human life have value?
June 21, 2015 at 4:19 pm
Brian and Chad,
Thanks guys!
Are you able to explain why you think human life has inherent value, and how you came to that conclusion?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Does human life have value?
June 21, 2015 at 4:57 pm
Some lives it seems are more valuable than others.
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RE: Does human life have value?
June 21, 2015 at 5:01 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 5:06 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 21, 2015 at 4:19 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Are you able to explain why you think human life has inherent value, and how you came to that conclusion?
Explain as in provide rational justification...or explain as in describe the biological situation that creates this situation?
Human life, btw, to me - the most valuable thing in existence, if for no other reason......than that I enjoy the hell out of mine. I wave the human flag at every opportunity, and there's never a moments hesitation in my mind when a decision has to be made between competing interests. I'm always on our side. Bald Eagles or well lit streets? Pow, roasted eagle. Beautiful forests or plentiful food? Hand me the gas and the torch.
I'd shoot a bear if I saw it chasing the next (or previous) Pol Pot, it's just who I am.
That the kind of declaration of inherent value you're thinking of? Does it qualify?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Does human life have value?
June 21, 2015 at 5:01 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 4:08 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Do you, as atheists, believe that human life has inherent value? (this means human life has value, in and of itself, unconditionally)
Definition of inherent (as per webster):
a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute
If so, how did you come to this conclusion, and why do you believe this?
(PS - No agenda here, just honestly curious about what you think and why you think it. If you do not want to hear my opinions, don't ask. I promise not to talk about them otherwise.)
The problem with your question is that value or worth is generally defined in relative terms and those terms have to do with importance that people assign to a person, object, or idea. Nothing has value in the abstract. Value is a term we apply to things we find of importance. So in answering the question I can't tell you if there is some permanent cosmic value to life, because unlike people, the cosmos doesn't assign values. Only people and perhaps some more mental advance animals do. And we assign value as valuable to people. If say lions assign value, I'm sure they assign it as valuable to themselves or possibly to lions. They wouldn't find human life anymore inherently valuable than we find lion life.
As a human I will say that people of any moral fiber find inherent value in human life. But that doesn't mean that when there are no more people, anyone will find human life to have been of any value.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: Does human life have value?
June 21, 2015 at 5:02 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 5:09 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(June 21, 2015 at 5:01 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 4:19 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Are you able to explain why you think human life has inherent value, and how you came to that conclusion?
Explain as in provide rational justification...or explain as in describe the biological situation that creates this situation? Human life, btw, to me - the most valuable thing in existence, if for no other reason......than that I enjoy the hell out of mine. You?
You can do both. :-)
(June 21, 2015 at 5:01 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 4:19 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Are you able to explain why you think human life has inherent value, and how you came to that conclusion?
Explain as in provide rational justification...or explain as in describe the biological situation that creates this situation? Human life, btw, to me - the most valuable thing in existence, if for no other reason......than that I enjoy the hell out of mine. You?
Me what?
(June 21, 2015 at 5:01 pm)Jenny A Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 4:08 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Do you, as atheists, believe that human life has inherent value? (this means human life has value, in and of itself, unconditionally)
Definition of inherent (as per webster):
a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute
If so, how did you come to this conclusion, and why do you believe this?
(PS - No agenda here, just honestly curious about what you think and why you think it. If you do not want to hear my opinions, don't ask. I promise not to talk about them otherwise.)
The problem with your question is that value or worth is generally defined in relative terms and those terms have to do with importance that people assign to a person, object, or idea.
This is not a problem. :-)
I asked whether or not you believe human life has inherent value because I want to know whether or not you believe it does. I see that your answer is you don't know. Thank you for your well thought out response below.
(edited)
Quote:Nothing has value in the abstract. Value is a term we apply to things we find of importance. So in answering the question I can't tell you if there is some permanent cosmic value to life, because unlike people, the cosmos doesn't assign values. Only people and perhaps some more mental advance animals do. And we assign value as valuable to people. If say lions assign value, I'm sure they assign it as valuable to themselves or possibly to lions. They wouldn't find human life anymore inherently valuable than we find lion life.
As a human I will say that people of any moral fiber find inherent value in human life. But that doesn't mean that when there are no more people, anyone will find human life to have been of any value.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Does human life have value?
June 21, 2015 at 5:25 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 4:08 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Do you, as atheists, believe that human life has inherent value? (this means human life has value, in and of itself, unconditionally)
Definition of inherent (as per webster):
a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute
If so, why do you believe this and how did you come to that conclusion?
(PS - No agenda here, just honestly curious about what you think and why you think it. If you do not want to hear my opinions, don't ask. I promise not to talk about them otherwise.)
Human life isn't unconditionally valuable to me. I don't believe abortion is wrong or euthanasia. If an old man who's suffering horrible pain doesn't want to live anymore and doesn't value his own life anymore I wouldn't value it for him or try and stop him killing himself.
If it was an old man who was just suffering from depression and I thought I could cheer him up I'd try, but if had something terminal that no one could cure I'd let him kill himself.
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
Impersonation is treason.
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RE: Does human life have value?
June 21, 2015 at 5:27 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 5:33 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Rationally, I value my own life. Because I am consistent I value in others that which I share with others, that which I value in myself. The more something shares with me, the more similar I am to something, the more value I assign it, because, again, value starts right here (and ofc the more dissimilar, the -less- I value it). This is why, for example, I assign the utmost value to your life, and less value to a dogs life.....while the dog's life is valued (by me) more than the life of a mollusk, and finally...allll the way down...the mullosk is assigned a greater value, to me...than a pile of rocks.
Biologically? My pain response is autonomous, my fear response is autonomous. My heart beats without my conscious control (and I couldn't will it to stop if I tried). I am -incapable- of not valuing my life, every part of me, from the machinery "on up"...if there even is an up...screams to me to preserve that which I am, alive. Even if the "on up" bit of me -tried- through ignorance or mistake...to off itself, my machinery might yank the wheel out of that humunculous' hands because clearly...it doesn't know wtf it's doing...and it's time for a better qualified operator. I can't help it, that's the situation my biology places me in, regarding my valuing human life.
(I was asking you if you thought that human life had value, ofc.)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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