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RE: Argument from Reason?
June 22, 2015 at 2:11 pm
(This post was last modified: June 22, 2015 at 2:13 pm by robvalue.)
I don't think I've seen anything as sophisticated as that 
1. If god exists, things make sense
2. Things make sense
3. God exists
4. My god exists because my book is the best
5. That'll be 10%
I honestly don't believe anyone has ever crossed from an atheist who has given such matters real thought, to a theist, just via any of these stupid arguments. I've heard it claimed but I don't believe it.
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RE: Argument from Reason?
June 22, 2015 at 2:14 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 6:37 pm)Alex K Wrote: Sounds like evolution is the answer
If homo sapien shaped objects are nonetheless found to "reason" like that this victor reppert, then evolution does indeed have much to answer for.
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RE: Argument from Reason?
June 22, 2015 at 7:12 pm
(June 22, 2015 at 2:09 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Does it bother anyone else that these apologist arguments more often than not boil down to:
1. X thing exists.
2. X thing belongs to my god.
3. Therefore, my god exists, or else you can't use X.
Much of the christian intellectual edifice is just christians pointing at aspects of the world and shouting "mine!"
It's a step up from Van Til. If you even speak, no matter what is said, it's "proof" for Christian theism.
I do appreciate the replies. But I don't see the issue in reading these arguments. I do see an issue with not thinking about them. I want to be able to engage them beyond just shouting "you're stupid" and walking away.
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RE: Argument from Reason?
June 22, 2015 at 7:22 pm
(June 22, 2015 at 7:12 pm)Barefoot Wrote: (June 22, 2015 at 2:09 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Does it bother anyone else that these apologist arguments more often than not boil down to:
1. X thing exists.
2. X thing belongs to my god.
3. Therefore, my god exists, or else you can't use X.
Much of the christian intellectual edifice is just christians pointing at aspects of the world and shouting "mine!"
It's a step up from Van Til. If you even speak, no matter what is said, it's "proof" for Christian theism.
I do appreciate the replies. But I don't see the issue in reading these arguments. I do see an issue with not thinking about them. I want to be able to engage them beyond just shouting "you're stupid" and walking away.
Try, "You're stupid, you're ugly, and your mother dresses you funny!"
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RE: Argument from Reason?
June 22, 2015 at 10:04 pm
(June 22, 2015 at 7:22 pm)bennyboy Wrote: (June 22, 2015 at 7:12 pm)Barefoot Wrote: It's a step up from Van Til. If you even speak, no matter what is said, it's "proof" for Christian theism.
I do appreciate the replies. But I don't see the issue in reading these arguments. I do see an issue with not thinking about them. I want to be able to engage them beyond just shouting "you're stupid" and walking away.
Try, "You're stupid, you're ugly, and your mother dresses you funny!"
I would buy your free ebook.
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RE: Argument from Reason?
June 23, 2015 at 5:38 am
(This post was last modified: June 23, 2015 at 5:40 am by robvalue.)
Faulty or incorrect premises is a good enough rebuttal. If it starts off with shit, you don't need to go any further.
Almost always, these things start with something either incoherent/incorrect as assumptions, or else a massive oversimplification of scientific theory. For example, "Everything has a cause." You can't write stuff like that and expect to be taken seriously. You can't apply the day to day logic we use for dealing with massive groups of matter we call "cars" and "front door keys" and apply them to quantum mechanics; especially as you approach the plank time where everything goes out the window regarding our understanding. It's literally saying, "Fuck science. This is how it is, it's really simple."
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RE: Argument from Reason?
June 23, 2015 at 5:52 am
(This post was last modified: June 23, 2015 at 5:52 am by Cyberman.)
Personally I find this far more convincing on a purely pragmatic level:
- See this bonfire?
- Therefore God exists.
(Hundreds more 'proofs' here.)
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Argument from Reason?
June 23, 2015 at 7:37 am
(June 23, 2015 at 5:52 am)Stimbo Wrote: Personally I find this far more convincing on a purely pragmatic level:
- See this bonfire?
- Therefore God exists.
(Hundreds more 'proofs' here.)
lol at the link! 
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RE: Argument from Reason?
June 23, 2015 at 10:23 am
If God exists, he must be really pathetic given his inability to even feed his creation properly.
Gods can't be pathetic.
There is no God.
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RE: Argument from Reason?
June 23, 2015 at 11:07 am
One of these days, perhaps we'll get what I like to call the "Argument from Evidence":
1. There is a large bearded man, wearing a toga, lounging on my couch; insisting I provide endless nachos, beer and 24x7 access to an HD porn channel. He has an impressive scowl.
2. He says his name is God.
3. If there was a God there would be evidence.
4. God is on my couch demanding vittles, drink and bawdy entertainment. Scowling in my general direction.
5. Sure sounds like evidence to me.
6. Therefore, God exists.
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