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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 25, 2015 at 10:41 am
(July 25, 2015 at 10:12 am)robvalue Wrote: Care to give some examples of what I popped off in the heat of the moment, in an empty headed way?
It would be a waste of time to go back through all your posts (though the entire exchange you had with Tim O'Neill which had you backpeddaling would be one example).
But I will highlight a few examples going forward. It shouldn't take long for you to provide them.
Quote:I've pretty much just constantly pointed out your errors.
If you had even attempted to do something like that, we would be having a very different conversation right now. ![[Image: thumbsup.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=forums.catholic.com%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fthumbsup.gif)
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 25, 2015 at 10:42 am
(This post was last modified: July 25, 2015 at 10:42 am by robvalue.)
The foundation of Christianity is the magic, which was very apparent in the context of his reply to my post.
A dude who existed and did a bunch of mundane stuff is not the foundation of Christianity. Well if it is, it's not as out there as I thought. It's what people like you use as a bait and switch, hoping we won't notice. Even though we do, every time.
But you'll continue to conflate the two, as you did even then, no matter how many times I point it out.
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 25, 2015 at 10:42 am
(July 25, 2015 at 10:09 am)Crossless1 Wrote: Randy: "My response to Crossless1 shows that REAL scholars (as opposed to idiots on the Internet and this forum especially) agree that Jesus really existed.
This directly refutes Crossless1's allegations that Jesus was a myth."
So, despite my specifically telling you days ago that I'm not a Jesus-myther, you pull this out of your ass? Get your shit together, Randy. As Rob said, you continue to conflate a possible historical Jesus with the Christ character of your book. That doesn't speak well of your integrity.
Here is my response to what you wrote.
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 25, 2015 at 10:43 am
(This post was last modified: July 25, 2015 at 11:02 am by IATIA.)
(July 25, 2015 at 10:37 am)Dystopia Wrote: (July 25, 2015 at 10:35 am)IATIA Wrote: And that would be ... ? Evidence! It it's testimonial, then at least we should expect records of people we know actually existed attesting that this or that really happened.
I corrected my quote source. It should have been directed at Randy. What is the evidence of the death of jesus?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 25, 2015 at 10:47 am
I'm clearly wasting my time with you. You're incapable of learning, at least as far as objectively assessing this subject.
I'm done for good now. Thanks for the contributions when they were honest, there were some in there at points. The fact that you think you're not making mistakes means you haven't learnt a thing, sadly.
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 25, 2015 at 10:50 am
(July 25, 2015 at 10:22 am)Losty Wrote: (July 24, 2015 at 10:28 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: The latter. Unless we had:
1. A promise to rise from the dead beforehand.
2. Verification of death.
3. Witnesses who saw the person alive afterward.
4. Conversion of both skeptics and enemies resulting from appearances.
You know, the kind of stuff Christians have...
I didn't know you had any of that outside of the bible,
Yes, there is corroboration from Jewish and Roman sources. I provided links to the posts which discuss this.
Quote:which obviously doesn't count as it is no more credible than any other story book.
Incorrect. Ehrman cites the four gospels as well as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Peter and one other which escapes me at the moment. These are credible sources of information concerning Jesus and not mere "story books".
Quote:How can you have a verification of death when there's no verification of life? Have I been out so long that Christians got all this cool stuff while I was gone or are you just being goofy?
"...he did exist..." (Ehrman, Bart, Did Jesus Exist?, 6.)
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 25, 2015 at 10:54 am
(This post was last modified: July 25, 2015 at 10:54 am by Randy Carson.)
(July 25, 2015 at 10:41 am)pocaracas Wrote: Care to tell us all what Ehrman claims can be extracted from the gospels as historical?
That Jesus existed.
Quote:And why is it that, even given those historical bits, he refuses to acknowledge that the resurrection story is an account of reality?
He has different views on the resurrection, obviously.
But at least he, Tim O'Neill and other honest atheists and skeptics can admit that Jesus really did exist in contradistinction with the intellectually lazy Jesus Mythicists who think that merely denying that fact is the easy way to a God-free life.
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 25, 2015 at 11:00 am
(This post was last modified: July 25, 2015 at 11:06 am by Randy Carson.)
(July 25, 2015 at 10:47 am)robvalue Wrote: I'm clearly wasting my time with you. You're incapable of learning, at least as far as objectively assessing this subject.
I'm done for good now. Thanks for the contributions when they were honest, there were some in there at points. The fact that you think you're not making mistakes means you haven't learnt a thing, sadly.
Bye, rob. ![[Image: wave.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=forums.catholic.com%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fani%2Fwave.gif)
You are clueless. Go read some good books. Here are a few for beginners:
RECOMMENDED READING LIST
Conversion Stories
Rome Sweet Home by Scott Hahn
Lead Kindly Light by Thomas Howard
Surprised by Truth by Patrick Madrid (contains 11 shorter conversion stories)
Crossing the Tiber by Stephen Ray
Beginning Apologetics
Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis
The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel
The Case for Faith by Lee Strobel
The Case for the Real Jesus by Lee Strobel
The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus by Gary Habermas and Michael Licona
Cold-Case Christianity by J. Warner Wallace
The One-Minute Apologist by Dave Armstrong
Cathollicism and Fundamentalism by Karl Keating (founder of Catholic Answers)
Catholicism for Dummies by Fr. John Trigilio and Fr. Brent Brighenti (silly title, excellent book)
Intermediate Apologetics
A Biblical Defense of Catholicism by Dave Armstrong
The Catholic Verses by Dave Armstrong
Answering Atheism by Trent Horn
The Biblical Basis for the Catholic Faith by John Salza
The Biblical Basis for the Papacy by John Salza
The Biblical Basis for Purgatory by John Salza
The Biblical Basis for the Eucharist by John Salza
Upon This Rock by Stephen K. Ray
The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel
The Case for Faith by Lee Strobel
The Case for the Real Jesus by Lee Strobel
The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus by Gary Habermas and Michael Licona
Cold-Case Christianity by J. Warner Wallace
Advanced Apologetics
Not by Faith Alone by Robert Sungenis
Not by Scripture Alone by Robert Sungenis
Not by Bread Alone by Robert Sungenis
History
How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization by Thomas E. Woods, Jr.
Theology
Theology for Beginners by Frank Sheed
Reference Books
The Holy Bible (Revised Standard Version – Catholic Edition)
Catechism of the Catholic Church (the print edition has a scripture index which is very useful)
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 25, 2015 at 11:04 am
(This post was last modified: July 25, 2015 at 11:11 am by Randy Carson.)
(July 25, 2015 at 10:43 am)IATIA Wrote: (July 25, 2015 at 10:37 am)Dystopia Wrote: Evidence! It it's testimonial, then at least we should expect records of people we know actually existed attesting that this or that really happened.
I corrected my quote source. It should have been directed at Randy. What is the evidence of the death of jesus?
Do you want Christian, Jewish or Roman sources? I have all three here:
1. Jesus died by crucifixion
http://atheistforums.org/thread-34162-po...#pid973916
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 25, 2015 at 11:06 am
(This post was last modified: July 25, 2015 at 11:06 am by robvalue.)
I have one last suggestion for you Randy, before I sign off for good from talking to you.
You seem to value Tim O'Neill's opinion very highly. Why not invite him to read this thread, and ask his opinion of if you're making any mistakes here? I'd he very interested in the result. That should be no problem if you're confident it's all above board.
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