RE: Do you wish God was real?
June 25, 2015 at 1:34 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2015 at 1:36 pm by Metis.)
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Do you wish God was real?
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CL, do you think a belief is simply a choice, that you can just 'turn on' or 'turn off' a belief?
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson 
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh  RE: Do you wish God was real?
June 25, 2015 at 1:39 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2015 at 1:41 pm by Metis.)
 (June 25, 2015 at 1:33 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:That doesn't really answer my question. Having the choice seems like a losing proposition. Letting god do the choosing works perfectly, letting me do the choosing has a chance of failing with tragic consequences.(June 25, 2015 at 1:22 pm)Tonus Wrote: If the only benefit of free will is that it gives me the option to condemn myself to hell for an eternity, then it's not very useful. If "me being me" can only result in eternal damnation, what good is free will?You have the choice not to. Is there a way in which having free will is a benefit for me? You say it's what makes me who I am. If who I am is a person who will spend eternity away from god, isn't it better for me to be whoever god decides I am? Pretend that I have no free will. Aside from my decision to serve or reject Jesus, how would my life be different? In what other ways can I use free will, that would make it worthwhile to risk offending god? I'm being serious here, this isn't a trick question. Frankly, this whole idea came about from a different topic here and I'm curious as to how Christians approach the question. I think it's a legitimate concern with the issue of free will, and am wondering if there's something I'm missing.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould RE: Do you wish God was real?
June 25, 2015 at 1:41 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2015 at 1:43 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh RE: Do you wish God was real?
June 25, 2015 at 1:45 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2015 at 2:06 pm by FatAndFaithless.)
(June 25, 2015 at 1:41 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:(June 25, 2015 at 1:35 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: CL, do you think a belief is simply a choice, that you can just 'turn on' or 'turn off' a belief? Good. So if I lack a belief in God, it's not because I've 'chosen' to disbelieve in God, it's because I can't believe in God. I can't believe in God until I've become convinced; just like I can't suddenly choose to believe that up is down and down is up, I can't choose to believe in God. Lacking that belief is a part of me over which I have no control. Yet I will still end up in hell/not entering heaven/being destroyed after death/etc based on that?
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson 
Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
 RE: Do you wish God was real?
June 25, 2015 at 2:11 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2015 at 2:16 pm by Simon Moon.)
(June 25, 2015 at 2:18 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Hello everyone, I have another question for all you fine folks of AF. You would really have to unpack and define the word 'god' before I was able to make a judgement. But for the most part, I would not wish any god that has extreme power and knowledge and that has the ability to manipulate our reality, cause miracles, answer prayers, etc to exist. I just cannot imagine how living in a universe with such a god, would not be a totalitarian regime. No matter how much said god is supposed to love us. Just because a being created us, does not mean that it is moral for it to have sovereignty over us. As far as the existence of a deistic type of god (created the universe, let it run on its own), I could care less if that type of god existed. But since I do not base my beliefs on what I wish were true, only what is actually true, I do not play such 'wishing games'. You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.  (June 25, 2015 at 1:14 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:(June 25, 2015 at 1:12 pm)Tonus Wrote: I agree, because it makes sense. Don't you think it's better, then, for god to have made that decision for us? Centuries of mankind thinking for itself have led us down a road of hardship, misery and suffering and possibly billions of lost souls. Had god made the decision for us, we would all be saved. Isn't that the better outcome for everyone? Given a choice of making my own decision and letting god (the greatest intellect in existence, a loving and generous being who wants what is best for me) do it instead, I'd let god take over every time. Doesn't it seem mean of him to leave such a momentous decision in our hands, knowing that a very large percentage of us will get it wrong? As Robvalue pointed out, that opens up a can of worms regarding Heaven. There is supposed to be no sin there. That means the people who go to Heaven either: 1. Have their free will taken away so they can't sin and become robots, or 2. God somehow makes it possible for them to retain free-will and still insure that they never sin. If he can do that, why not do it here?
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein |
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