Posts: 23918
Threads: 300
Joined: June 25, 2011
Reputation:
151
RE: Agnostic among Atheists
July 4, 2015 at 5:34 pm
(This post was last modified: July 4, 2015 at 5:40 pm by Whateverist.)
(July 4, 2015 at 4:49 pm)Saxmoof Wrote: (July 4, 2015 at 4:46 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: (bold mine)
What? That's not true...
Doomed, "atheist" and "agnostic" aren't mutually exclusive. Most here, me included, refer to themselves as agnostic atheists. I don't believe in any gods anyone has offered up, but I don't claim to have knowledge about whether or not they actually exist.
A/gnostic has to do with knowledge, while a/theism has to do with belief.
Welcome!
Every human that exists today and has ever existed has been agnostic and that will remain the case until a God decides to make himself known. So that means every atheist is agnostic - because atheists are humans. As for whether all agnostics are atheists.. well they're definitely not religious.., what do you call someone who isn't religious? Atheist
The fact that you deem everyone who has ever existed to have lacked true knowledge regarding the existence of a god, doesn't make them agnostic. I think being agnostic would require a person to profess that position for their own reasons.
Technically everyone is probably an atheist in regard to at least some gods, so it is probably easier to show a person that he is an atheist to some degree than to convince him he should claim agnosticism.
PS: Oops, forgot to welcome our newest member. Someone should be along soon with cookies or cake and perhaps some tea. For what it's worth, I am also both an agnostic and an atheist. Of the two, I'd say the agnosticism is more informative about who I am and also more important to me personally. But like you I primarily don't give a hoot whether something so poorly defined as a god exists. Let's just say it isn't in my urgent file.
Posts: 1494
Threads: 0
Joined: July 26, 2014
Reputation:
14
RE: Agnostic among Atheists
July 4, 2015 at 5:36 pm
(July 4, 2015 at 5:31 pm)doomed Wrote: (July 4, 2015 at 5:18 pm)Alex K Wrote: Welcome!
And what they said... Thanks Alex. 
(July 4, 2015 at 5:19 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: Well when it comes to the question of whether a god exists, what do you believe? Do you currently hold a belief that a god exists? I think... Well, I dunno and I don't care. I don't hold any belief right now. I actually have the belief that most people have their own personal gods, but I can't say they're real or not, just that the person use them to comfort themselves.
(July 4, 2015 at 5:24 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: I'm an atheist, and I'm not sure about the existence of a god... I see... So there are agnostic atheists out there too. Do you think it's wrong for me to call myself agnostic atheist based on what I said about my beliefs? Why?
(July 4, 2015 at 5:24 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: You are very welcome here. How are you enjoying the conversations so far? They're not so bad. I just came here and we're all trying to define what the words agnostic and atheist means. Thanks for the welcome, by the way.
Ok so you don't hold a belief regarding a god, you are by definition an atheist, and if you say you don't know for certain a god exists then you are an agnostic atheist.
Posts: 7085
Threads: 69
Joined: September 11, 2012
Reputation:
84
RE: Agnostic among Atheists
July 4, 2015 at 5:41 pm
(July 4, 2015 at 5:31 pm)doomed Wrote: (July 4, 2015 at 5:24 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: I'm an atheist, and I'm not sure about the existence of a god... I see... So there are agnostic atheists out there too. Do you think it's wrong for me to call myself agnostic atheist based on what I said about my beliefs? Why?
Sure! If you believed in deities, but didn't claim to know for sure, you'd be an agnostic theist. Since you don't believe in them, but don't claim to have knowledge, that would make you an agnostic atheist.
No big, though; outside of the forum, I usually just refer to myself as a non-believer.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
Posts: 23918
Threads: 300
Joined: June 25, 2011
Reputation:
151
RE: Agnostic among Atheists
July 4, 2015 at 5:43 pm
Meh, express it in whatever way floats your boat. Don't forget we are picking nits regarding something allegedly 'supernatural', a set I have always found to be empty.
Posts: 26
Threads: 2
Joined: July 4, 2015
Reputation:
0
RE: Agnostic among Atheists
July 4, 2015 at 5:58 pm
(July 4, 2015 at 5:36 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: (July 4, 2015 at 5:31 pm)doomed Wrote: Thanks Alex.
I think... Well, I dunno and I don't care. I don't hold any belief right now. I actually have the belief that most people have their own personal gods, but I can't say they're real or not, just that the person use them to comfort themselves.
I see... So there are agnostic atheists out there too. Do you think it's wrong for me to call myself agnostic atheist based on what I said about my beliefs? Why?
They're not so bad. I just came here and we're all trying to define what the words agnostic and atheist means. Thanks for the welcome, by the way.
Ok so you don't hold a belief regarding a god, you are by definition an atheist, and if you say you don't know for certain a god exists then you are an agnostic atheist. Alright... Thanks.
(July 4, 2015 at 5:41 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: (July 4, 2015 at 5:31 pm)doomed Wrote: I see... So there are agnostic atheists out there too. Do you think it's wrong for me to call myself agnostic atheist based on what I said about my beliefs? Why?
Sure! If you believed in deities, but didn't claim to know for sure, you'd be an agnostic theist. Since you don't believe in them, but don't claim to have knowledge, that would make you an agnostic atheist.
No big, though; outside of the forum, I usually just refer to myself as a non-believer. I preffer calling myself agnostic when I "come out" to other people to make things less shoking, I guess. It obviously doesn't work very well. lol
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
155
RE: Agnostic among Atheists
July 5, 2015 at 2:55 am
(This post was last modified: July 5, 2015 at 2:59 am by robvalue.)
Heya. Welcome aboard!
By the definitions commonly used in the atheist community, you are certainly an agnostic atheist. A weak atheist (no active belief in a god) rather than a strong atheist (an active belief that there is no god). A subtle difference! It's like the difference between a juror who is undecided and a juror that rules not guilty. They both don't hold the "guilty" belief at that point. I have loads more about this on my website if you're interested.
Whether you like to label yourself as such is your decision though. I'm not here to tell you what to call yourself
Just agnostic often does sound more palatable to those people who may freak out at the a-word.
Posts: 9147
Threads: 83
Joined: May 22, 2013
Reputation:
46
RE: Agnostic among Atheists
July 5, 2015 at 3:51 am
(This post was last modified: July 5, 2015 at 3:55 am by bennyboy.)
Time for another trip around the merry-go-round.
"Agnostic" CAN be used in exclusion of atheism. I, for example, am agnostic, and do not accept the terms atheist or agnostic atheist in reference to myself. I see agnosticism as an ambiguous position, depending on WHY the person claims they don't know the answer to the question:
1) A person can hold competing beliefs simultaneously; for examply the conscious rational mind and the subconscious or emotional minds may be in a state of conflict.
2) The question can mean many things, and a person, knowing he might answer differently under different meanings, cannot therefore verbalize a simple yes/no answer.
3) The person may be open to both possibilities, and feel that he is still "processing" the question-- that is, that the person thinks he might believe in some kind of god, but is waiting for his brain to spit out that answer.
The problem with the bi-axial view is that the agnosticism may not be about God ("I don't know if God is real,") but about the mental process that goes into identifying beliefs ("I don't know that I can accurately represent my belief/lack of belief at this time.") I do not accept atheism as the default position, because if I am aware of the God question, and cannot clearly "No, I don't believe in that," then either I DO believe in it, or I don't know what exactly I believe.
Posts: 26
Threads: 2
Joined: July 4, 2015
Reputation:
0
RE: Agnostic among Atheists
July 5, 2015 at 7:41 am
(July 5, 2015 at 2:55 am)robvalue Wrote: Heya. Welcome aboard!
By the definitions commonly used in the atheist community, you are certainly an agnostic atheist. A weak atheist (no active belief in a god) rather than a strong atheist (an active belief that there is no god). A subtle difference! It's like the difference between a juror who is undecided and a juror that rules not guilty. They both don't hold the "guilty" belief at that point. I have loads more about this on my website if you're interested.
Whether you like to label yourself as such is your decision though. I'm not here to tell you what to call yourself
Just agnostic often does sound more palatable to those people who may freak out at the a-word. I'm going to call myself agnostic atheist to be more specific here. Yep, I'm still going to use it to not scare other people so much.
Posts: 1494
Threads: 0
Joined: July 26, 2014
Reputation:
14
RE: Agnostic among Atheists
July 5, 2015 at 8:03 am
I call myself an atheist but I can not deny that the label freaks people out, mostly because they do not understand what it means.
Posts: 26
Threads: 2
Joined: July 4, 2015
Reputation:
0
RE: Agnostic among Atheists
July 5, 2015 at 8:09 am
(July 5, 2015 at 8:03 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: I call myself an atheist but I can not deny that the label freaks people out, mostly because they do not understand what it means. The people I know seem to be unable to understand how someone can life a happy, successful life without believing in a god. It's funny, but upseting.
|
