Hate forums: What are your thoughts?

[jesus_wept]

Really? I mean it's obvious some of them (probably more than 50%) are Christian but I think their ideology is more focused on racial purity than religion itself - To some degree, white nationalism works like a religion. I have argued that nazism is anti-religion not because nazis can't be religious but because it promotes the worship of the State and an ideal of purity that makes religion incompatible since it requires worshiping a more supreme being. I think Christian supremacists are more KKK and so on but far-right parties in Europe are very open to secularists specially the National Front in France.

You keep saying really like I'm making it up and the atheist forum was packed to the rafters when I was posting there. Think what you want.

[Longhorn]

I hope they're poes. But it's good that these websites exists, at least it gives them an Otley for their beliefs they would otherwise have to look for in violence....or so I would hope

[abaris]

There's a fundamental mistake in your argument: Nazism wasn't about the state but about creating what they considered the perfect people. The state and nationalisms were the instruments to enforce it, but it wasn't at the center of the ideology. The ideology was purely racist in nature.

That's how people like the KKK or white supremacists or even Russian and Greek neo nazis make ends meet to fit their own agenda without resorting to the German brand of old. They hate the same kind of people and in some cases the churches provided and still provide spiritual cover for them. Religion isn't the motivating factor, that's for sure, but it isn't incompatible either.

[Pyrrho]

There are several issues brought up in the opening post.  First of all, the main point, if you are going to have freedom of speech, that means you are going to allow unpleasant things to be said.  Otherwise, "freedom of speech" isn't really freedom of speech at all.

Now, if they actually are planning illegal activities online, then they can be prosecuted for that.  And if they [stupidly] post proof of illegal actions that they have taken in the past, then that can be used as evidence against them for the purposes of prosecution.

[TheMonster]

Really? I mean it's obvious some of them (probably more than 50%) are Christian but I think their ideology is more focused on racial purity than religion itself - To some degree, white nationalism works like a religion. I have argued that nazism is anti-religion not because nazis can't be religious but because it promotes the worship of the State and an ideal of purity that makes religion incompatible since it requires worshiping a more supreme being. I think Christian supremacists are more KKK and so on but far-right parties in Europe are very open to secularists specially the National Front in France.

It's funny how they use the word "cultural marxism" when what they perceive as being cultural marxism has little to do with marxism and more with liberalism itself, which is anti-marxist by nature. I'm always amazed by how extreme factions label anyone who does not agree with them as oppressive. This happens with a lot of people. I can't argue with a very devout communist because he'll call me a burgueoise, and a far-right nazi will call me a race traitor. It's not fair

I never really understood what those nuts mean by "Cultural Marxism". It is not really a recognized term in historical study.
I also love how they criticize PC as if that is our credo.
I also dont understand why they lump all communists, liberals, leftists into one category as if we are all the same.

I have nothing against right wingers and some of my beliefs can be describeed as right wing as well (when it comes to taxation, benefits and social support). But ultra-conservatism is something that i never understood.
No country has even been successful with such politicians. I cannot think of even one!

[Pyrrho]

....
I also love how they criticize PC as if that is our credo.
I also dont understand why they lump all communists, liberals, leftists into one category as if we are all the same.
...

It is because racist assholes are stupid fools who are incapable of making fine distinctions.  Or even the fairly coarse distinctions that you mention.  If they were intelligent, they would not believe the nonsense they spout.

Basically, racism is due to being too stupid and lazy to judge people on their individual merits.  It is much easier to just group people together and judge them all at once instead of taking the time, trouble, and effort to come to a reasonable conclusion about them individually.

So, quite a few people with shit for brains are racist assholes.  Until stupidity is cured, we can expect to have them around.

[vorlon13]

I'm coming to the conclusion my going on Stormfront and witnessing that my experiences with negro penises leads me to conclude that they are not that much bigger than white ones would not help any of them get over their tiny, tiny, tiny penis fears.

[Brian37]

Bigoted speech has to be protected as well. The limit on free speech is no calls to violence. It is not simply enough to silence someone for saying "I hate these groups of people". Not a wise idea to make censorship a blanket solution to be free from being offended. I am quite sure to religious people, this website is seen as "bigoted" and "hateful" so wouldn't be wise for minority atheists to hand the government the loaded gun of censorship.

What one considers offensive another may not. The common law is that you cannot act out in violence or make calls to violence. The well intended fail to consider that power shifts over time, and while it is good to fight bigotry, you have to consider what you would want to say you know offends others. You don't protect offensive speech because you personally like it, you protect it for your own right to say what you want. "Who gets to decide" what is or is not offensive. It is better to simply agree that no one advocate violence.

Now that is not to say bigoted organizations have not been sued and members arrested, that has happened. But the government cannot simply have anyone arrested for being a bigot or saying hateful things.

[Dystopia]

There's a fundamental mistake in your argument: Nazism wasn't about the state but about creating what they considered the perfect people. The state and nationalisms were the instruments to enforce it, but it wasn't at the center of the ideology. The ideology was purely racist in nature.

That's how people like the KKK or white supremacists or even Russian and Greek neo nazis make ends meet to fit their own agenda without resorting to the German brand of old. They hate the same kind of people and in some cases the churches provided and still provide spiritual cover for them. Religion isn't the motivating factor, that's for sure, but it isn't incompatible either.

I disagree - Nazism (or National-Socialism as they call it) is a branch of fascism, which is a Statist and inherently totalitarian ideology - Despite the nuegative connotation of the word, fascists and nazis see totalitarian as something positive, basically like liberals and conservatives see free speech - I'm sorry, but while Nazism wasn't solely about the State, Hitler took inspiration and tried to effectively accomplish Mussolini's idea that individuals are not as important as the common good and the State and thus your will is only valid for as long as it matches the expectations and goals of the State. The State is a central entity because in these ideologies it takes an almost spiritual, omnipresent form, kinda like a God basically - Communism is materialistic, fascism is anti-materialistic - National-Socialism was based on race and it is a very peculiar form of fascism because the original conception wasn't very racist (just as racist as the rest of the world was at the time) and it was actually contrary to nazism because mediterranianism, a race theory popular in Italy that influenced Italian fascism, argued for the superiority of the Italian and southern European race (which Hitler thought was inferior to the Nordic-German one).

It is because racist assholes are stupid fools who are incapable of making fine distinctions. Or even the fairly coarse distinctions that you mention. If they were intelligent, they would not believe the nonsense they spout.

Basically, racism is due to being too stupid and lazy to judge people on their individual merits. It is much easier to just group people together and judge them all at once instead of taking the time, trouble, and effort to come to a reasonable conclusion about them individually.

So, quite a few people with shit for brains are racist assholes. Until stupidity is cured, we can expect to have them around.

It is also intellectually and academically lazy - Communism and socialism is not the same as Liberalism, in fact the former ideologies are inherently anti-capitalist and therefore anti-liberalism because liberalism allows for private property and the free market. You cannot simply lump all your opponents under the same label just because they don't agree with you, it's intellectually dishonest and annoying. Cultural Marxism doesn't exist, there is nothing in Marxism that we can understand that brings us to what supremacists call the invasion of white countries - Not only that, but there isn't an agreement on Marxist circles on what is moral or not aside from workers and common ownership of the means of production so a communist could be socially liberal and tolerant but as witnessed by Stalin's reign it is possible for a communist to be homophobe and probably other nasty -isms (Even though academically I think racism at least is not compatible with communism as the main goal is to unite the workers, but Stalinism can allow a bit of racism).

Just like I think we shouldn't put all leftists in the same category, I wouldn't put all rightists in the same category as well - A socially liberal but economic conservative is not the same as a socially conservative neo-con, or as a traditionalist European monarchist, or as a Christian democrat, and a fascist who prefers the Italian version is not the same as one who prefers Nazism.