Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven?

[Crossless2.0]

My daughter believed in a god (presumably the Christian flavour, from interacting with her peers and social club activities) up until a couple of years ago. I didn't tell her not to believe in it, she asked what I thought and I told her why I don't believe in gods while suggesting as well as you can to an 8 year old that she should make these decisions herself and always question others and, more importantly, herself about such things.

Last year sometime she told me that she no longer believes in gods - note the plural. She has learnt about the main religions and various different gods at school and decided that it's not for her - hence her asking me to contact school recently to excuse her from prayers and praise type songs.

She is still too young to fully understand the implications but I'm pleased that she is at least starting out from a neutral position here on in (as she was when she came into the world). If she chooses to embrace faith in some or other god when she is older that's her choice but I will advise her if she asks.


Let's see, the first offering you gave me to reconsider my actions as an atheist parent were Matthew 18:6. I picked the KJ version but they all read pretty much the same (which is unusual in itself for bible translations).

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea"

Could you put this in context for me, bearing in mind my description of my interactions with my daughter above please.

You are not taking her to church and putting her in an place where she can lean about the true God and how He is the only God. It's a good thing she has rejected all the false gods. God has made it the responsibility of the parents to expose them to Him. He understands how little ones can be pushed in a wrong direction. It's people like you who have pushed the ability for kids to learn about God school out of the schools, so how is it she could possibly have learned about God there, evolution is taught in school and taught in a way that there's no God of creation.

GC

Why is it that idiots like you cannot or will not understand that in this country, and under our Constitution, it is not the job of the state or its representatives (including public school teachers) to "teach" people about God (by which you mean, of course, Christ/Yahweh)?  No one pushed the ability for kids to learn from our schools.  What is not allowed is jackasses who think like you, pushing their beliefs onto our children while drawing a public salary.

I have stated here before that I am in favor of unbiased classes in comparative religion and mythology in public schools (as well as courses devoted to the study of logic and rhetoric), but you're not interested in those, are you?  Why?  Because kids might just get the idea that your brand of bullshit is no better substantiated than those other brands of bullshit you don't believe.  When you talk about freedom in our schools, you're really talking about the freedom to play with loaded dice.

And evolution?  Good luck finding a public school that does a good job of teaching that.  My high school sure as hell didn't.  In fact, my biology teacher made a point of not going through that chapter in our textbook precisely because he didn't want the headache of having to deal with moron fundie parents and their indoctrinated kids raising hell with him all term.  He was a pussy for adopting that stance, but I understand his desire to avoid unnecessary stress.  But assuming a school does make a serious effort to teach biology correctly, why on earth should there be any mention of any god?  When I took chemistry, the teacher didn't feel it necessary to talk about god's role in the behavior of gases.  In physics, we didn't get the lowdown on how there was a god behind Newton's laws.  And the funny thing is, you Christians don't clamor for such things.  Why?

[Godscreated]

It's people like you who have pushed the ability for kids to learn about God school out of the schools, so how is it she could possibly have learned about God there, evolution is taught in school and taught in a way that there's no God of creation.

GC

And let's hope this is the future. It's people like you who lead to more backward thinking, narrow minded people like you.

Why, because I'm against something that has never been proven, I'm not going to get into an evolutionary discussion in this thread to many have been derailed over this.

I suppose that you have no problem with kids killing other kids, teacher and principals, I suppose it's alright with you that they believe human life is no more important than any other life.

GC

[Godscreated]

You are not taking her to church and putting her in *an* place where she can *lean* about the true God and how He is the only God. It's a good thing she has rejected all the false gods.

She rejected ALL gods as false, she's in *a* place where she can *learn* how to write properly and understand science.

Right, taught a science that does away with God, tells her there's no need for God, school is not a neutral environment for kids, not when God is taught as non existent. 

GC

[Crossless2.0]

She rejected ALL gods as false, she's in *a* place where she can *learn* how to write properly and understand science.

Right, taught a science that does away with God, tells her there's no need for God, school is not a neutral environment for kids, not when God is taught as non existent. 

GC

Your utter lack of understanding of how science works is well documented on these boards, so there's no need to deal with your drivel about science doing away with "God".  You don't get the scientific method.  We know.

As for the rest, give me specific, documented examples (not something one of your fellow yokels at church mentioned over coffee) of public schools telling students "there's no need for God" or that God is taught as non-existent.  Under the Constitution, public schools are to be neutral on such questions, and properly so.

[TubbyTubby]

I suppose that you have no problem with kids killing other kids, teacher and principals, I suppose it's alright with you that they believe human life is no more important than any other life.

GC

I don't recognise that question as qualifying as anything that comes close to one worthy of an answer, and I don't see the relevance to what I wrote previously.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Crossless1, when will idiots like you learn that the Constitutial right to the free exercise of religion is not a mandate for the government to impose godlessness.

[Faith No More]

Crossless1, when will idiots like you learn that the Constitutial right to the free exercise of religion is not a mandate for the government to impose godlessness.

The better question, Chad, is when will idiots like you learn that neutral ground is not equal to godlessness? Is it so hard to understand that not recognizing any religion in no way diminishes your own beliefs? Are you not happy unless everyone bows to your beliefs? Are your beliefs so weak that they suffer is they are not publicly acknowledged, even in a public realm where people will hold a variety of religious beliefs?

[The Grand Nudger]

-and god isn't in that scenario Chad?  If he's reaching, it isn't working.  He could reach harder, I assume?  I haven't completely exhausted gods abilities...have I?  

Unfortunately, I suspect so. Your every post seems determined to close off any opening for the Holy Spirit.

Some god you worship, then, stymied by a jumped up ape...........didn't feel like responding to any of the rest, eh? Understandable. Just because I don't think that the spirit -you- worship is holy, or even remotely pleasant, for that matter...doesn't mean I'm closed off to anything, how unimaginative of you. Is this also an effect of that deeper wisdom or simply your own frustration?

when will idiots like you learn that the Constitutial right to the free exercise of religion is not a mandate for the government to impose godlessness.

That's -exactly- what it is. The government has been mandated to impose godliness upon -itself- in order to safeguard your own, personal beliefs, from -actual- persecution. Appreciate it, stop whining about it, you benefit from it immensely.

[Godscreated]

Right, taught a science that does away with God, tells her there's no need for God, school is not a neutral environment for kids, not when God is taught as non existent. 

GC

Your utter lack of understanding of how science works is well documented on these boards, so there's no need to deal with your drivel about science doing away with "God".  You don't get the scientific method.  We know.

As for the rest, give me specific, documented examples (not something one of your fellow yokels at church mentioned over coffee) of public schools telling students "there's no need for God" or that God is taught as non-existent.  Under the Constitution, public schools are to be neutral on such questions, and properly so.

No real understanding of your type of science, you're correct. The falsification of the Piltdown Skull is just one example, it was taught in schools for years, yes a hoax taught to impressionistic minds for what. To try and further a false cause to indoctrinate children.
I've several friends that are or have been teachers and they have related what happens in schools from grade school through high school.

GC

[Godscreated]

I suppose that you have no problem with kids killing other kids, teacher and principals, I suppose it's alright with you that they believe human life is no more important than any other life.

GC

I don't recognise that question as qualifying as anything that comes close to one worthy of an answer, and I don't see the relevance to what I wrote previously.

Of coarse you don't, denial is your best weapon, pitiful but true.