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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 2:37 pm
(July 12, 2015 at 1:38 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (July 12, 2015 at 1:35 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: It doesn't.
Inerrant = not containing errors.
Bible contains errors, ergo it is not inerrant.
'The underlying message' has nothing to do with it. Either it contains no errors, or it contains errors, 'the message' notwithstanding.
What this means is it does not contain errors in terms of the overall message being portrayed, etc. But not as far as scientific and historical accuracy. I am not required to believe it was all written in literal form. go through this
http://www.project-reason.org/bibleContra_big.pdf <- this shows every single bible contradiction.
This image below shows a bar graph showing the misogyny and violence in the bible
![[Image: s9MRTDw.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i.imgur.com%2Fs9MRTDw.png)
See the far left side, that bar means genesis has more anti woman verses than any other book in the bible.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 2:38 pm
(July 12, 2015 at 1:54 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: (July 12, 2015 at 1:41 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: If we're just ignoring what the text says and extrapolating hidden meanings from it, then it's no different from other literature and should be held in no higher regard.[/color]
We're not ignoring what the text says, we're considering what the author intended to convey.
If I say, "It is raining cats and dogs.", what am I trying to convey? That there are a lot of dead animals out on the lawn or that it is raining heavily?
And if the scriptures are inspired by God, then it IS different from other literature and held in higher regard even if the literary forms used to convey God's message is indistinguishable from other literary works.
Authorship matters.
^Yes!!
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 3:13 pm
Man, Randy's dick must be hard as a stone with CL eating his shit up like that. She must be at least as dumb as he is. Like damn. Must be nice to have a cheerleader for once, considering how he normally gets treated around here.
Besides, the point of this thread was to discuss a moral question that's barely been discussed. CL doesn't seem to think that the events of Revelation are a useful account of end times, but also doesn't think that Revelation is a load of bullshit (if you're not reading it to find out about the end of the world, I don't know what the fuck you'd hope to extract from it).
Even if you don't believe Revelation is literally true, it's clearly talking about an end scenario full of death and torture, inflicted by god himself. If you don't really think revelation is even allegorically true and that nobody will be tortured and killed over Jesus coming back, then yes, you think Revelation is crap, and you have a completely non-biblical view of the second coming. That's fine if that's the case, but it clouds the discussion at hand and is an obscure enough theological claim that it doesn't really seem useful for the OP question.
Verbatim from the mouth of Jesus (retranslated from a retranslation of a copy of a copy):
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
Also, I has a website: www.RedbeardThePink.com
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 3:19 pm
(This post was last modified: July 12, 2015 at 3:21 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(July 12, 2015 at 3:13 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: Man, Randy's dick must be hard as a stone with CL eating his shit up like that. She must be at least as dumb as he is. Like damn. Must be nice to have a cheerleader for once, considering how he normally gets treated around here.
We are both of the same faith, and he can do a much better job of explaining things than I can. I am not so good with words or with expressing my thoughts. It's good to have a fellow Catholic here for support and to help out with explaining our views to you guys and answering your questions. 
(July 12, 2015 at 3:13 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: Besides, the point of this thread was to discuss a moral question that's barely been discussed. CL doesn't seem to think that the events of Revelation are a useful account of end times, but also doesn't think that Revelation is a load of bullshit (if you're not reading it to find out about the end of the world, I don't know what the fuck you'd hope to extract from it).
Even if you don't believe Revelation is literally true, it's clearly talking about an end scenario full of death and torture, inflicted by god himself. If you don't really think revelation is even allegorically true and that nobody will be tortured and killed over Jesus coming back, then yes, you think Revelation is crap, and you have a completely non-biblical view of the second coming. That's fine if that's the case, but it clouds the discussion at hand and is an obscure enough theological claim that it doesn't really seem useful for the OP question.
Did you see the Catholic source I linked you to several pages back that explains the Church's position in regards to the second coming of Christ?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 3:24 pm
(July 12, 2015 at 1:54 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: (July 12, 2015 at 1:41 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: If we're just ignoring what the text says and extrapolating hidden meanings from it, then it's no different from other literature and should be held in no higher regard.[/color]
We're not ignoring what the text says, we're considering what the author intended to convey.
If I say, "It is raining cats and dogs.", what am I trying to convey? That there are a lot of dead animals out on the lawn or that it is raining heavily?
And if the scriptures are inspired by God, then it IS different from other literature and held in higher regard even if the literary forms used to convey God's message is indistinguishable from other literary works.
Authorship matters.
When " considering what the author intended to convey", one needs to know something of the author and if that something is what is contained within the author's literature, it is invalid per 'circular reasoning'. Without this validation, it is no more than fiction and all views can be just as valid with the exception of "It is true", unless all can agree unanimously.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
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Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 3:32 pm
(July 12, 2015 at 3:13 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: Man, Randy's dick must be hard as a stone with CL eating his shit up like that. She must be at least as dumb as he is. Like damn. Must be nice to have a cheerleader for once, considering how he normally gets treated around here.
Besides, the point of this thread was to discuss a moral question that's barely been discussed. CL doesn't seem to think that the events of Revelation are a useful account of end times, but also doesn't think that Revelation is a load of bullshit (if you're not reading it to find out about the end of the world, I don't know what the fuck you'd hope to extract from it).
Even if you don't believe Revelation is literally true, it's clearly talking about an end scenario full of death and torture, inflicted by god himself. If you don't really think revelation is even allegorically true and that nobody will be tortured and killed over Jesus coming back, then yes, you think Revelation is crap, and you have a completely non-biblical view of the second coming. That's fine if that's the case, but it clouds the discussion at hand and is an obscure enough theological claim that it doesn't really seem useful for the OP question.
Welcome to my ignore list. ![[Image: wave.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=forums.catholic.com%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fani%2Fwave.gif)
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 3:39 pm
(This post was last modified: July 12, 2015 at 3:46 pm by Redbeard The Pink.)
(July 12, 2015 at 3:19 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: We are both of the same faith, and he can do a much better job of explaining things than I can. I am not so good with words or with expressing my thoughts. It's good to have a fellow Catholic here for support and to help out with explaining our views to you guys and answering your questions.
Did you see the Catholic source I linked you to several pages back that explains the Church's position in regards to the second coming of Christ?
I did not. I have exactly zero interest in your religion's Book-Of-Mormon-esque addendum to the Bible. Can you not articulate your own beliefs regarding end times? How do they differ from the accounts of Revelation?
You know what? Never mind.
Randy, how do Catholic_Lady's beliefs about the end times differ from what's in Revelation?
(July 12, 2015 at 3:32 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: Welcome to my ignore list.
Well, knew that was gonna happen eventually. Pussy.
Anybody care? Nope? Good, moving on...
Alright, so since Randy chickened out and won't be rescuing you any more (at least not from me), I guess I have to kick the question back to you, CL. How do your beliefs differ from Revelation? You're welcome to ignore me like Randy did if you don't like my tone and/or don't wish to answer any more hard questions.
Verbatim from the mouth of Jesus (retranslated from a retranslation of a copy of a copy):
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
Also, I has a website: www.RedbeardThePink.com
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 3:53 pm
(July 12, 2015 at 3:39 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: (July 12, 2015 at 3:19 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: We are both of the same faith, and he can do a much better job of explaining things than I can. I am not so good with words or with expressing my thoughts. It's good to have a fellow Catholic here for support and to help out with explaining our views to you guys and answering your questions.
Did you see the Catholic source I linked you to several pages back that explains the Church's position in regards to the second coming of Christ?
I did not. I have exactly zero interest in your religion's Book-Of-Mormon-esque addendum to the Bible. Can you not articulate your own beliefs regarding end times? How do they differ from the accounts of Revelation?
You know what? Never mind.
Well, my beliefs are that of the Catholic Church, since I am Catholic. But ok, seems like you are not interested in knowing. Fair enough.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 4:05 pm
(July 12, 2015 at 3:53 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (July 12, 2015 at 3:39 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: I did not. I have exactly zero interest in your religion's Book-Of-Mormon-esque addendum to the Bible. Can you not articulate your own beliefs regarding end times? How do they differ from the accounts of Revelation?
You know what? Never mind.
Well, my beliefs are that of the Catholic Church, since I am Catholic. But ok, seems like you are not interested in knowing. Fair enough.
I guess you didn't read the rest, huh? I notice you're pretty selective about what parts of my posts you'll respond to.
Like I said, I was gonna ask Randy what you believe, but he's not talking to me any more because I hurt his feel-bads. So now I'm asking you. What do you believe about the end times? I'm not asking for a simple "I believe what Catholics believe," and I don't particularly want to see a link. I'd like you to answer the question. You certainly do not have to if you cannot our do not wish to.
Verbatim from the mouth of Jesus (retranslated from a retranslation of a copy of a copy):
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
Also, I has a website: www.RedbeardThePink.com
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 4:07 pm
(July 12, 2015 at 3:53 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (July 12, 2015 at 3:39 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: I did not. I have exactly zero interest in your religion's Book-Of-Mormon-esque addendum to the Bible. Can you not articulate your own beliefs regarding end times? How do they differ from the accounts of Revelation?
You know what? Never mind.
Well, my beliefs are that of the Catholic Church, since I am Catholic. But ok, seems like you are not interested in knowing. Fair enough.
Here's an overview from the USCCB: http://www.usccb.org/bible/revelation/0
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