LISTEN, CHRISTIANS!

[Vincent]

I have a question for Christians. This is out of genuine curiosity:

If God were to manifest himself before us, will you "unconditionally" accept and worship Him, if He is not the God of the Bible?

[robvalue]

You know what, that's a good point. I think the atheists here are generally very accommodating and willing to have discussion with theists.

Atheists on an atheist forum could just as easily say, "Come back when you've grown up" and refuse to talk to theists about religion. I think they are given a very fair chance here. It's just sad to see so many abusing that to preach and strawman.

[Rhondazvous]

Granted, some things do seem to have originate with Moses. The slave system in America was based on the law of Moses.

That is a lie..

"Kidnappers must be put to death, whether they are caught in possession of their victims or have already sold them as slaves" - Exodus 21:16

Please explain how American slave traders adhered to that particular law?

More dishonest? say it ain't so.  

Leviticus 25:44-46
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way

Treating other people like property sounds like the American slave trade to me. Don’t you feel a little embarrassed calling someone dishonest when you’re the one who doesn’t know what you’re talking about?

[robvalue]

I think when you have to make excuses for all the horrific shit in the bible, you've left embarrassment behind a long time ago.

[Rhondazvous]

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.  (Leviticus 25:44-46

Children of foreigners could be kept as a permanent inheritance so the Jubilee laws didn't apply to them.

I admit, the Jubilee has always fascinated me because it seems like a great opportunity for people to start fresh from debt and slavery; however, it appears to have only applied to Hebrews. Even foreigners who had been born in Israel could be kept as permanent slaves.

I didn't see you had already posted that verse.

[Randy Carson]

Here's the thing that you seem to keep missing: anger does not necessarily have to be directed at your god. Our anger can, in fact, be directed at another person. Why are you refusing to even consider that we might just be angry at the person we're talking to? What's up with that?

I get this completely. Some of you have been hurt or disappointed by Christians, and you're angry at them - not at God (who, after all, does not exist).

Still, is it purely coincidental that for some, the loss of faith in God has coincided with this hurt/disappointment? Or would you say that they were totally unrelated?

Finally, I also get that in some cases, folks have REALLY cried out to God in a time of real need, and they got no answer. First, they got mad, then they concluded that "silence = non-existence". And now they are angry at ANYONE AND EVERYONE who supports the God who let them down because they feel like they've been lied to all those years.

Am I missing anything?

[Randy Carson]

It's hard for them to accept what we say because all our words are filtered through thoughts of "What will people think of me if I acknowledge that what these atheist say makes sense?" "What will happen to my ministry?" "I'll never get my wife to accept this. She's in Christian ministry for the money and doesn't care if it's true or not so I'd better reject what the atheists say to save my marriage." "I've put too much mouth into Christianity. I can't back out now."

How can  they hear us, much less think about what we're saying with all this cacophony going on in the background?

Very few Catholic priests have wives who are "in Christian ministry for the money."

And how much do you think the average Catholic priest is paid annually?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Basically, these fools are saying even if they see God personally they still wouldn't accept him.... where's the logic in that?

This proves there is something else behind their "atheism" other than simply "having no belief"

Listen you dense motherfucker. Don't you dare try to speak for me. Yet again you show why you're the biggest prick on this forum with this bullshit misrepresentation.


The question is "IF in the end, you find that God does exist .... will you unconditionally accept Him as your God?"

Bolded the important bit.

If I find out that the god of the bible exists after I die, you can damn well expect me and any other fucker with even a minimal amount of morality to question the actions that are accounted in his book, the bible (and I'm only assuming that because the person who asked the question was christian). Only a slave with no backbone would blindly accept a master so fucked up. That would not be me 'unconditionally accepting him'. If I were to find out he were actually real (which for the record I don't think is going to happen), then that does not automatically mean I would unconditionally accept him as my god.

The morality of the god you believe in is bizarre as far as I'm concerned. You are telling me you would blindly "accept" a god who promotes slavery, sacrifice, genocide and all the other fucked up shit in your little book, yet you have the audacity to call me a fool? You're a fucking chump. A slave if you would unconditionally accept such a maniacal overlord. And fuck you if you would genuinely do so, frankly nutjobs like you make me sick. You are basically admitting you cannot think for yourself. Imbecile.

Also, there is nothing else 'behind my atheism' besides the fact I don't believe in god. What exactly was it that gave you that impression besides my one word answer to a loaded question? Why don't I believe in god? Because the evidence for one is severely lacking. Now the question asked makes me assume for the sake of argument that god is real. I'm obviously going to have other reasons to not 'accept' god if I assume that is the case aren't I? Although you'd obviously say no because your morality is fucked and you blindly accept being a slave. Moron.

This bears repeating. Hear, fucking hear.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Oh, but Randy? Don't think I missed you agreeing with this louse back there. That's disappointing; we might disagree, but I always figured you as having some modicum of intelligence to go with that.

Huggy pointed out some of the responses that people have posted which appear to contradict the "I'm not angry at God" position that many claim. I said thanks. Big whoop.

But it occurs to me why it's so important for folks in this forum to deny being angry at God...because that unveils them as actually believing that He exists. How can you be angry at something that simply doesn't exist?

Now, don't get me wrong (like that's not gonna happen anyway), I know that there are quite a few members of the forum who are not angry atheists. You can tell by their calm, casual responses and posts that they are simply not all wound up. They're just few and far between, aren't they?

Others (and I would probably include you in this group, frankly) are REALLY aggressive and pissed off. Or am I completely wrong about you?

Every time I think Randy has reached the nadir of his stupidity, he surprises me.

When I'm angry, it's at real people ... Around here, those folks are mostly assholes proselytizing so hard that that they cannot help but misunderstand what they read.

[Nope]

Children of foreigners could be kept as a permanent inheritance so the Jubilee laws didn't apply to them.

I admit, the Jubilee has always fascinated me because it seems like a great opportunity for people to start fresh from debt and slavery; however, it appears to have only applied to Hebrews. Even foreigners who had been born in Israel could be kept as permanent slaves.

I didn't see you had already posted that verse.

Post the verse enough time and maybe those making excuses for biblical slavery will finally read it