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RE: Recap - A moral question for theists
July 15, 2015 at 9:19 am
(July 15, 2015 at 8:32 am)Drich Wrote: (July 14, 2015 at 11:12 am)Crossless1 Wrote: That's cute, Drich, but the point stands. There came a point some decades after the crucifixion when the unfulfilled return became an embarrassment that had to be dealt with. I doubt Jesus' immediate followers had in mind your brilliant fruit fly analogy. They may have been dumb enough to think Jesus meant what he allegedly said. Silly flies! What's really funny is your contention that it's us who stop thinking when presented with such a verse, when in fact that verse has given you Christians an excuse to stop thinking about the truth or falseness of the prophecy for centuries. Talk about parroted clichés!
Well, if you count The time spent with Paul He did return in very short order even by a fruit fly's standard.
Paul also called out god for being unjust and not good, many bible characters called out god for being a lair and no good in general.
Then also jesus sacrafice was so small if that, not to mention the name and were he was born because that is really superficial. Going to that
he could have been born into a slave camp or any place or beaten on a daily basis but no he live a normal life. Then on top of that jesus spent
1 day of getting tortured then on top of that sparticus 70bce and his compatriots were also tortured and sacrificed on a cross the fact is
jesus sacrifice just shows how pointless it is to die for nothing.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: Recap - A moral question for theists
July 15, 2015 at 9:41 am
(July 15, 2015 at 8:32 am)Drich Wrote: (July 14, 2015 at 11:12 am)Crossless1 Wrote: That's cute, Drich, but the point stands. There came a point some decades after the crucifixion when the unfulfilled return became an embarrassment that had to be dealt with. I doubt Jesus' immediate followers had in mind your brilliant fruit fly analogy. They may have been dumb enough to think Jesus meant what he allegedly said. Silly flies! What's really funny is your contention that it's us who stop thinking when presented with such a verse, when in fact that verse has given you Christians an excuse to stop thinking about the truth or falseness of the prophecy for centuries. Talk about parroted clichés!
Well, if you count The time spent with Paul He did return in very short order even by a fruit fly's standard.
You know perfectly well that's not what I'm talking about.
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RE: Recap - A moral question for theists
July 15, 2015 at 9:49 am
(July 14, 2015 at 3:31 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: (July 14, 2015 at 12:20 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: What you need to understand is that many many prophecies refer to both immediate and future events. You also must remember that Jesus, the Prophets, and Apostles explicitly used parable and allegory (Mark 13:14 "let him that readeth understand.."). Mark 13 and parallels like Matthew 24 refer to both the end times and to the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. i.e. "the abomination of desolation" contained in Daniel 7. So you are completely wrong. That is the part of the prophecy was actually fulfilled "within this generation". You're just referring to the wrong part of the prophecy.
Well, I wasn't referring to Mark 13 or Matthew 24, but thanks for the unnecessary remedial lesson in the use of parable and allegory. Since you brought up those chapters, I'm curious to know when you date the likely composition of Mark.
Jesus didn't come to give us a book. He spoke those words before the destruction of the Temple. We know this because His words are recorded in two parallel texts. It doesn't matter when they were recorded.
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RE: Recap - A moral question for theists
July 15, 2015 at 9:59 am
(July 15, 2015 at 9:19 am)dyresand Wrote: Paul also called out god for being unjust and not good, many bible characters called out god for being a lair and no good in general. Book chapter and verse?
Quote:Then also jesus sacrafice was so small if that, not to mention the name and were he was born because that is really superficial. Going to that
he could have been born into a slave camp or any place or beaten on a daily basis but no he live a normal life. Then on top of that jesus spent
1 day of getting tortured then on top of that sparticus 70bce and his compatriots were also tortured and sacrificed on a cross the fact is
jesus sacrifice just shows how pointless it is to die for nothing.
Jesus live and died in such a way as to put Him in a place where He could accomplish what he needed to accomplish.. And what is a 'slave camp?'
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RE: Recap - A moral question for theists
July 15, 2015 at 10:00 am
(July 15, 2015 at 9:41 am)Crossless1 Wrote: (July 15, 2015 at 8:32 am)Drich Wrote: Well, if you count The time spent with Paul He did return in very short order even by a fruit fly's standard.
You know perfectly well that's not what I'm talking about.
Despite what your talking about, how do you know that is not what they were talking about?
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RE: Recap - A moral question for theists
July 15, 2015 at 10:24 am
(July 15, 2015 at 9:49 am)ChadWooters Wrote: (July 14, 2015 at 3:31 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Well, I wasn't referring to Mark 13 or Matthew 24, but thanks for the unnecessary remedial lesson in the use of parable and allegory. Since you brought up those chapters, I'm curious to know when you date the likely composition of Mark.
Jesus didn't come to give us a book. He spoke those words before the destruction of the Temple. We know this because His words are recorded in two parallel texts. It doesn't matter when they were recorded.
It matters if the texts put those words in his mouth after the destruction of the Temple (or at least close enough to the events that guessing where things were heading wasn't such an astonishing act of prescience). You assume he spoke those words. I have no trouble assuming his "prophecies" are instances of pious attribution to impress the writers' audience.
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RE: Recap - A moral question for theists
July 15, 2015 at 10:42 am
(July 15, 2015 at 10:24 am)Crossless1 Wrote: (July 15, 2015 at 9:49 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Jesus didn't come to give us a book. He spoke those words before the destruction of the Temple. We know this because His words are recorded in two parallel texts. It doesn't matter when they were recorded.
It matters if the texts put those words in his mouth after the destruction of the Temple...
So your theory is that two independent sources (Mark and Mathew) attribute nearly the exact same words to Jesus just by coincidence.
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RE: Recap - A moral question for theists
July 15, 2015 at 10:43 am
(July 15, 2015 at 10:42 am)ChadWooters Wrote: (July 15, 2015 at 10:24 am)Crossless1 Wrote: It matters if the texts put those words in his mouth after the destruction of the Temple...
So your theory is that two independent sources (Mark and Mathew) attribute nearly the exact same words to Jesus just by coincidence.
Who thinks Matthew is independent of Mark?
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RE: Recap - A moral question for theists
July 15, 2015 at 1:37 pm
(This post was last modified: July 15, 2015 at 1:37 pm by ronedee.)
Mark 13:32 "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."
Quis ut Deus?
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RE: Recap - A moral question for theists
July 15, 2015 at 4:14 pm
(July 15, 2015 at 1:37 pm)ronedee Wrote: Mark 13:32 "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."
Quoted by a Trinitarian. 
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