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Honest Question to Atheists - Best Argument?
#71
RE: Honest Question to Atheists - Best Argument?
In answer to the OP, the closest I've ever heard to an argument that (before I studied logic and philosophy), had any chance of convincing me, was the Cosmological Argument. It sounds pretty good, until just a bit of evaluation.

But no matter what version of the CA, they all have logical flaws in form that invalidate them.

The teleological. ontological, TAG are even bigger logical messes.

You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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#72
RE: Honest Question to Atheists - Best Argument?
(July 17, 2015 at 11:00 am)Pandæmonium Wrote:
(July 17, 2015 at 9:29 am)popsthebuilder Wrote: When you are dead through disbelief your existence is over. You will not know it because there will be no you to contemplate it. Silly. I think stupidity is obvious to some who exhibit it, perhaps not all. Ignorance is apparent upon truthfully introspect.

FSM Grin I don't think you got it.

(July 17, 2015 at 10:21 am)popsthebuilder Wrote: Cato,
Negative emotions or the lack of emotion in general can be relatd to lack of belief. Never said anything different. Nice try though.

Care to give us some evidence of that? Upon what scientific basis do you hold the above to be true? In what way does lack of belief equate to lack of emotion? Or is this another baseless assertion you've been taught to regurgitate when speaking with the evil masses of satan on an online discussion forum?
Lack of belief equated to lack of a certain level of emotion. I know this through experience.
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#73
RE: Honest Question to Atheists - Best Argument?
(July 17, 2015 at 11:03 am)Cato Wrote:
(July 17, 2015 at 9:11 am)popsthebuilder Wrote: Cato,
Negative emotions or the lack of emotion in general can be relatd to lack of belief. Never said anything different. Nice try though.

Pops,
The following statements are yours:

(July 17, 2015 at 9:11 am)popsthebuilder Wrote: What I am trying to say is that we can tell what us real to us based on our bodies emotional reaction to certain thought.

(July 17, 2015 at 9:26 am)popsthebuilder Wrote: Firstly you will never find truth when clouded by anger, fear, hatred, or some misplaced peer acceptance.

In one you are telling me that emotions tell us what's real, in the second you are telling me that I can't find truth because I'm clouded by certain emotions. Trying to resolve the contradiction by suggesting that only negative emotions block the path to the truth/knowledge of reality is still preposterous. If I found myself in water staring into the eyes of a hungry great white shark, I will be afraid. I think my fear is an appropriate response to what's real.
You speak of instinctual survival instinct which by definition isn't related to thought. I speak of thought that causes emotion. Two very different things.
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#74
RE: Honest Question to Atheists - Best Argument?
(July 17, 2015 at 11:48 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote:
(July 17, 2015 at 10:28 am)popsthebuilder Wrote: [...] Good fights in an upright obvious fashion whereas evil fights in the dark, hidden in its very nature.

Well, then how do you explain Batman?  
He fights in the dark, hidden in his nature... His -very- nature, whatever...
...
Because he's Batman.

If you're calling the Dark Knight evil - we're going to have words.

Big Grin
I stand corrected. The dark knight is the exception.
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#75
RE: Honest Question to Atheists - Best Argument?
(July 17, 2015 at 2:24 pm)Pyrrho Wrote:
(July 17, 2015 at 2:02 am)SamS Wrote: Has there ever been a Christian argument, or something a Christian said, that made you, for even a split second, question whether your current atheistic stance is right?


Not in my adult life.  Since I was raised to be a Christian, I believed that absurd nonsense as a child, but while growing up, its inconsistencies and absurdities bothered me.  So after looking for proof of god and religion, I found that the arguments in favor of god and religion are all fallacious garbage.


(July 17, 2015 at 2:02 am)SamS Wrote: Even if the argument turned out to be completely fabricated or disprovable, did it at the very least draw you closer to believing the Bible is God's Word and all that such a belief entails?


That describes all of the arguments for god and religion.  They are all fallacious and ridiculous.  Including the drivel you put forth in a later post in this thread.  Indeed, your later post is an exercise in begging the question.


(July 17, 2015 at 2:02 am)SamS Wrote: If not, has there ever been an argument that you didn't know how to answer, or that surprised you  against your expectations?


When I was young, I was surprised at the audaciously stupid arguments that some people put forth for their silly, ridiculous beliefs.  Now, no matter how stupid the non sequitur, I am not surprised.  Religious stupidity knows no bounds.


(July 17, 2015 at 2:02 am)SamS Wrote: Not looking for "All Christian arguments are idiotic" replies. This is an honest question.


One does not always get what one wants.  All of the arguments in favor of Christianity are fallacious.  If you are too stupid to see the fallacies, that tells us something about you.

This, by the way, is why some religious people resort to saying that they believe by faith; that is, without evidence.  Some Christians are smart enough to see that the arguments are fallacious.  But, unfortunately, are not smart enough to reject faith.
No. Very few attain true Faith for it is absolutely selfless and extremely difficult to comprehend and exponentially more difficult to execute. The ones who don't have real Faith, can't be expected to answer correctly because the answers just barely elude them.
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#76
RE: Honest Question to Atheists - Best Argument?
(July 17, 2015 at 2:46 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:
(July 17, 2015 at 2:02 am)SamS Wrote: Has there ever been a Christian argument, or something a Christian said, that made you, for even a split second, question whether your current atheistic stance is right?

Even if the argument turned out to be completely fabricated or disprovable, did it at the very least draw you closer to believing the Bible is God's Word and all that such a belief entails?

If not, has there ever been an argument that you didn't know how to answer, or that surprised you  against your expectations?

Not looking for "All Christian arguments are idiotic" replies. This is an honest question.

No, I've considered the arguments, but never during that time did I find any of them at all convincing.

They all boil down to "never mind the facts we know how about the facts we DON'T, eh EH!"
All the facts we know still work with an all encompassing God, or source.
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#77
RE: Honest Question to Atheists - Best Argument?
You're on a roll!

you testify pops!!! Let 'em have it...
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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#78
RE: Honest Question to Atheists - Best Argument?
(July 17, 2015 at 3:03 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: As to the OP and SamS, short answer is no to all. No argument or position (at least since the age of 13) has changed my atheism, even made me question.

An argument is just that, an argument. You want me to consider your belief? Give me proof. Verifiable proof. A simple enough request but one that never seems to be provided. All I ever get is more argument. For me this is not a debate.

To Pops, what can I say? Continue flip flopping and spewing out the next non sequitur statement as this seems to suit you. As far as I'm concerned nothing you say is compelling.
Science would be proud.
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#79
RE: Honest Question to Atheists - Best Argument?
-and you're telling us all this from a point of knowledge or experience...you know something about a "true faith", that most don't and can't...because....? Are we to expect -you- to answer correctly?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#80
RE: Honest Question to Atheists - Best Argument?
(July 18, 2015 at 11:37 pm)Rhythm Wrote: -and you're telling us all this from a point of knowledge or experience...you know something about a "true faith", that most don't and can't...because....? Are we to expect -you- to answer correctly?
Faith was the final hurdle for me personally. I was literally shown my errors, my burdens were lifted. My life was explained as if it was all documented prior to my existence. I was literally pushed into a state of unwaivering Faith. I must still daily test and admit and prove this Faith to myself in order to stay in tune if you will.
(July 17, 2015 at 3:03 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: As to the OP and SamS, short answer is no to all. No argument or position (at least since the age of 13) has changed my atheism, even made me question.

An argument is just that, an argument. You want me to consider your belief? Give me proof. Verifiable proof. A simple enough request but one that never seems to be provided. All I ever get is more argument. For me this is not a debate.

To Pops, what can I say? Continue flip flopping and spewing out the next non sequitur statement as this seems to suit you. As far as I'm concerned nothing you say is compelling.
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