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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 4:56 pm
(October 15, 2015 at 3:26 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Jenny - You're also (willfully?) ignoring something I have pointed out to you many times before.
I'll bold it so you don't miss it, this time: About one-half of scientists are religious believers of some sort.
So when you say "scientists", and try to imply that they don't believe because they refuse to investigate (and that it's because they don't want to believe), it ignores the fact that every other one out there does believe.
As to your claim that things are not investigated, in addition to the links already provided for you, you should really look into the group called the Committee for the Scientific Investication of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP, for short). They do exactly what you claim no one is willing to do.
http://www.csicop.org/
Quoting self to save time.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 5:00 pm
(October 15, 2015 at 4:32 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote: (October 15, 2015 at 4:15 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: [...]why do you think we believe in God?
Because your parents told you to. And their parents told them. And so on - until some point in the past, when some people with rocks/swords/guns walked up to one of your ancestors and said "Believe in god, or we will kill you and your family."
Because you're confused by science, which is vast, complex and only truly understood by a handful of people, in small parts, that each takes a lifetime of commitment to research, while the "god" umbrella gives you an illusion of understanding everything, without bothering with the "details".
Because you're afraid of death, so any idea that suggests you won't really die seems more acceptable than cold, hard facts.
Because you're bored.
do you believe something that you are not convinced of something that has not been proven to be real ? do you believe just because your parents believe something ? and what about people who believe in God whos parents were atheists and they did not receive any indoctrination in childhood or adulthood but yet believe in God ?
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today  Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 5:02 pm
(This post was last modified: October 15, 2015 at 5:03 pm by Homeless Nutter.)
(October 15, 2015 at 5:00 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: and what about people who believe in God whos parents were atheists and they did not receive any indoctrination in childhood or adulthood but yet believe in God ?
1. There are very few of those.
2.
(October 15, 2015 at 4:32 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote: Because your parents told you to. And their parents told them. And so on - until some point in the past, when some people with rocks/swords/guns walked up to one of your ancestors and said "Believe in god, or we will kill you and your family."
Because you're confused by science, which is vast, complex and only truly understood by a handful of people, in small parts, that each takes a lifetime of commitment to research, while the "god" umbrella gives you an illusion of understanding everything, without bothering with the "details".
Because you're afraid of death, so any idea that suggests you won't really die seems more acceptable than cold, hard facts.
Because you're bored.
I didn't say all of those reason apply to everyone.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 5:04 pm
(October 15, 2015 at 4:55 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: (October 15, 2015 at 3:41 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Be honest here, Jenny. Do you honestly hear a story about a miracle that occurs at the Hindu festival, and think to yourself "Ohmygosh! The Hindu gods have power! They must be right!!" or do you presume that something else is going on?
When we skeptics look at the "miracle" that the Hindus claim, and prove it was a natural phenomenon, after all, how do you think the True Believers™ among the Hindi see us? Do you think they might say the same stuff to you that you say to us?
And yet, I bet you'd come to this same conclusion:
Quoting self to save time.
i would be open minded to any hindu miracle and not automatically dismiss it just because they are hindu or jewish or christian or muslim . if its proven to be a hoax then its proven to be a hoax . people should be open to the possibility it is not a hoax not just assume that it is one.
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 5:09 pm
(October 15, 2015 at 5:04 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: i would be open minded to any hindu miracle and not automatically dismiss it just because they are hindu or jewish or christian or muslim . if its proven to be a hoax then its proven to be a hoax . people should be open to the possibility it is not a hoax not just assume that it is one.
Oh, really? Very well then - I am God. I created the heaven and the earth and you need to obey me, worship me and send me money.
Are you on your knees right now? I mean - have you proven that my divinity is a hoax? No? Well, then - I must be your God.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 5:11 pm
(This post was last modified: October 15, 2015 at 5:13 pm by jenny1972.)
(October 15, 2015 at 4:56 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: (October 15, 2015 at 3:26 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Jenny - You're also (willfully?) ignoring something I have pointed out to you many times before.
I'll bold it so you don't miss it, this time: About one-half of scientists are religious believers of some sort.
So when you say "scientists", and try to imply that they don't believe because they refuse to investigate (and that it's because they don't want to believe), it ignores the fact that every other one out there does believe.
As to your claim that things are not investigated, in addition to the links already provided for you, you should really look into the group called the Committee for the Scientific Investication of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP, for short). They do exactly what you claim no one is willing to do.
http://www.csicop.org/
Quoting self to save time.
well thats good news maybe there is a chance that science will develop the ability someday but scientific theories are debated among scientists also there will be some who will have another explanation for the phenomenon . for example some think there is still noise from the big bang but not all scientists agree the noise is a remnant from the big bang . there will always be skeptics who refuse to accept .
(October 15, 2015 at 5:09 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote: (October 15, 2015 at 5:04 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: i would be open minded to any hindu miracle and not automatically dismiss it just because they are hindu or jewish or christian or muslim . if its proven to be a hoax then its proven to be a hoax . people should be open to the possibility it is not a hoax not just assume that it is one.
Oh, really? Very well then - I am God. I created the heaven and the earth and you need to obey me, worship me and send me money.
Are you on your knees right now? I mean - have you proven that my divinity is a hoax? No? Well, then - I must be your God.
you have done nothing to convince me , you have to convince the skeptic in me . i only believe in what ive been convinced of .
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 5:18 pm
(This post was last modified: October 15, 2015 at 5:27 pm by Homeless Nutter.)
(October 15, 2015 at 5:11 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: [...]for example some think there is still noise from the big bang but not all scientists agree the noise is a remnant from the big bang .
Really? Then what theory do those scientists propose, to explain the background radiation? Or do you not know, just heard about the "controversy" from christian apologists?
(October 15, 2015 at 5:11 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: there will always be skeptics who refuse to accept .
Where are the "skeptics" who refuse to accept the theory of gravity, or general relativity? By "skeptic" do you mean "the odd nut-job, with no evidence"?
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 5:19 pm
(October 15, 2015 at 5:11 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: you have done nothing to convince me , you have to convince the skeptic in me . i only believe in what ive been convinced of .
Well then - you understand how we feel about YOUR unsubstantiated claims. 
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 5:21 pm
(October 15, 2015 at 4:43 pm)Evie Wrote: Jenny,
Science would be interested in testing God if He were scientifically testable. The religious scientists would be particularly interested, but even the nonreligious ones would.
So Jenny, have you thought about the possibility of you being wrong? Of you one day realizing that your experiences of God are invalid and not real? I suspect that if this happens actually, it won't be a sudden realization - what will probably happen is that sense of conviction that you feel God exits and your trust in the validity of your experiences over time, will fade away. I only hope that one day you will see the light!
i suppose if God stopped communicating with me for a long length of time i could begin to doubt . i hope someday you will experience it and see the light 
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 5:24 pm
(October 15, 2015 at 5:21 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: (October 15, 2015 at 4:43 pm)Evie Wrote: Jenny,
Science would be interested in testing God if He were scientifically testable. The religious scientists would be particularly interested, but even the nonreligious ones would.
So Jenny, have you thought about the possibility of you being wrong? Of you one day realizing that your experiences of God are invalid and not real? I suspect that if this happens actually, it won't be a sudden realization - what will probably happen is that sense of conviction that you feel God exits and your trust in the validity of your experiences over time, will fade away. I only hope that one day you will see the light!
i suppose if God stopped communicating with me for a long length of time i could begin to doubt . i hope someday you will experience it and see the light
How does god communicate with you?
I am seriously interested.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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