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August 3, 2015 at 9:49 am (This post was last modified: August 3, 2015 at 9:51 am by orangebox21.)
(August 2, 2015 at 10:15 pm)Shuffle Wrote:
(July 31, 2015 at 3:17 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: An example of point number 1 would go as follows. The creation event includes the beginning of time, space, and matter. Therefore prior to the creation event there was no time, no space, and no matter. If the Flying Spaghetti Monster were the creator of the universe, then matter (spaghetti) would exist prior to the existence of matter. This is a logical impossibility, therefore the Flying spaghetti monster could not be the creator of the universe.
A comparison of each faith's truth claims can be examined through a review of mutually exclusive truth claims. In other words, start with any two faith's truth claims and ask, are these two truth claims mutually exclusive or synonymous? If synonymous they are one and the same; combine the truth claims and subsequent faith's together and proceed. If the truth claims are mutually exclusive then either claim A or claim B is true. Eventually you will be left with two choices with mutually exclusive truth claims.
Either truth claim A or truth claim B is true. As an example, one of the truth claims shared by all religions is that man is in a fallen or imperfect state and is in need of salvation/redemption/perfection [a claim atheist's would recognize as well]. To the best of my knowledge, all religions other than Christianity make the claim that salvation/redemption/perfection of man is found in man's own efforts. In other words, all other religions teach that man is his own redeemer. Christianity makes a different and mutually exclusive claim. Namely that you have the forgiveness of sins [salvation/redemption/perfection] through the effort of [God] Jesus Christ. It is by grace you have been saved, not of works. So on this specific issue, either Christianity is true or all other religions are true.
Response to point 1:
Great! You ruled one out of a literally infinite amount of gods. Also, all the energy and matter that exists now existed before the Big Bang, however it crammed up into an unbelievably dense point called a singularity. NO ONE believes in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, however it is just an example to point out how it has the same amount of evidence, or lack thereof.
You've only demonstrated that you don't understand point #1. Yes it will take some work to 'rule out' possibilities. The creation event that you have assumed for the sake of this argument involves only a creation event claimed by a known deity. What deity has claimed singularity? A person's belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster is entirely irrelevant as to whether or not an it could possess the characteristics required to cause the creation event.
Response to point 2
You will NOT be left will two choices with mutually exclusive truth claims. That makes no sense. What did I have for breakfast today?
A: Cereal
B: Pancakes
C: Nothing
They are all mutually exclusive. Cereal is not pancakes. Pancakes are not nothing. Cereal is not nothing.
Response to point 3:
Going back to my breakfast example, just because cereal and pancakes are made of matter and "nothing" isn't made of matter, doesn't mean that I either had cereal and pancakes, or nothing. I love how you threw in "So on this specific issue," so you can have a pass on your ridiculous notion. There are thousands of issues that I can point to that make all of the religions mutually exclusive. THAT'S WHY THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DIFFERENT RELIGIONS!!!!!!!!
If that is all true, then provide three deities that satisfy the requirement of the creation event (point #1) that have three different mutually exclusive truth claims about the creation event (point #2).
If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists... and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible... would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?
(August 1, 2015 at 1:47 am)Shuffle Wrote: Can we get some more Christians on here? It seems like the only ones on this thread are employing the tactic I previously mentioned: radio silence. If they are are not silent then they are posting things such as: "God called me, the other Gods didn't." It is pretty pathetic.
Oh wait! I forgot! We also have MysticNight on here that is eager to use presuppositions to advance his silly argument. His excuses for these presuppositions are: "I already covered them," or: "I will cover them."
We also have a group of atheists that easily tear down any defense Mystic has put up, however his only responses are: "I already explained that," or, "I will explain that."
Since this is my first real thread, I really had hope for the theists on here to surprise me, however they did quite the opposite. I no longer have hope for any theist on here to have any real arguments, points, or legitament thoughts that haven't been picked apart to shreds by atheists. Maybe I will give them a second chance in the future, maybe not!
They are pretty much the same warmed-over shit you've heard everywhere else.
(July 31, 2015 at 9:42 am)ChadWooters Wrote: The arguments support Christianity because Christianity is true. But they do not support the other religions because those religions are false.
Lucky how you managed to believe the real truth with all that silly stuff around.[/sarcasm]
(July 31, 2015 at 10:13 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Yes. And I was an atheist for more than 10 before I became a Christian again. I'm quite sure familiarity with our respective cultures play a very large role in our choices.
What are your rational reasons for believing in Christianity? I've discussed mine with Islam. I don't know of yours. If you have none, then it probably is due largely to culture.
Christianity is based solely on the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Subsequent appearances such as those to Swedenborg only confirm that which has already been established. Otherwise, I would probably be a neo-Platonic Pagan.
(July 31, 2015 at 10:17 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: What are your rational reasons for believing in Christianity? I've discussed mine with Islam. I don't know of yours. If you have none, then it probably is due largely to culture.
Christianity is based solely on the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Subsequent appearances such as those to Swedenborg only confirm that which has already been established. Otherwise, I would probably be a neo-Platonic Pagan.
There is no way that the resurrection was a real thing, does that worry you?
(August 3, 2015 at 1:36 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Christianity is based solely on the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Subsequent appearances such as those to Swedenborg only confirm that which has already been established. Otherwise, I would probably be a neo-Platonic Pagan.
There is no way that the resurrection was a real thing, does that worry you?
The resurrection is a historical fact. That should worry you.
(August 3, 2015 at 1:16 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: According to Drich, in order to find the Christian god, we must ask, seek, and knock, but Godschild claims to have been called.
Who's right?
Both. Those who are called will necessarily ask, seek, and knock.
If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists... and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible... would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?
