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Thoughts on origins
August 10, 2015 at 11:41 am
Ok, so I know most of you know where the theists stand on the origin of the universe, but I would like to hear what those that identify as atheist, non-theist, naturalist, etc think of the origin of the universe (or maybe no origin at all).
I am NOT looking for proof or evidence, merely postulation on what you think. I don't know is ok, but I'm really just looking for what you personally feel is most probable.
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RE: Thoughts on origins
August 10, 2015 at 11:42 am
No idea.
What do I win?
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RE: Thoughts on origins
August 10, 2015 at 11:44 am
(August 10, 2015 at 11:42 am)Neimenovic Wrote: No idea.
What do I win?
Lol well normally I would say waffles, but that is your department and i wouldn't dare take it away from you. 
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.
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RE: Thoughts on origins
August 10, 2015 at 11:48 am
I think it is beyond our capability to understand the "beginning" of the universe. As we follow time backwards towards the singularity, our understanding of physics breaks down, and the classical notion of cause and effect that we humans have evolved to rely on and can't fathom not existing doesn't apply when t = 0.
In fact, thinking of the universe as having a beginning may very well be the problem in the first place.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Thoughts on origins
August 10, 2015 at 11:48 am
(This post was last modified: August 10, 2015 at 11:49 am by Longhorn.)
(August 10, 2015 at 11:44 am)lkingpinl Wrote: Lol well normally I would say waffles, but that is your department and i wouldn't dare take it away from you.
Good.
I got my eyes on you, mister >:c
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RE: Thoughts on origins
August 10, 2015 at 11:51 am
To say we have no idea isn't correct, we know some things. For example we know there was a big bang and we know it was 13 billion years ago. As to what caused the big bang or what things looked before we don't know. All we know is that there was a "before".
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: Thoughts on origins
August 10, 2015 at 11:54 am
(This post was last modified: August 10, 2015 at 12:20 pm by Alex K.)
I'll assume the usual big bang picture as a given all the way back to a time when the universe was hot enough that atomic nuclei do not yet form (because the observed numbers of so-called primordial elements Helium 3,4 Lithium and Hydrogen are pretty closely as predicted by BB). Before that it becomes difficult. I'll assume something like cosmic inflation or similar simply because I don't know a better solution to the observed flatness and homogeneity of the universe. Here it becomes more unclear. If it really was a quantum event that randomly triggered our part of the universe to inflate, tracing back our history further becomes very murky. My gut feeling is that at some point we will have a quantum space time in which time is not a nicely linear timeline like thing any more, in which case the notion of going backwards in time is not so well defined any more. Our timeline could be hooked up to a network of many times near the "origin" but that's just wild speculation. Already before that (going backwards) it is a solid "I don't know,."
So my answer is "we originated in a several MeV hot soup in an expanding space a bit less than 14 billion years ago, and before that, well, grab a glass of red wine and we'll phantasize"
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Thoughts on origins
August 10, 2015 at 12:05 pm
No clue.
I'm fine not postulating an opinion until the evidence comes in. And if it never does, "I don't know" is a wonderful position to take.
I'm happy to leave the "knowing" to theists. You guys are comically terrible at it.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: Thoughts on origins
August 10, 2015 at 12:22 pm
(August 10, 2015 at 11:41 am)lkingpinl Wrote: Ok, so I know most of you know where the theists stand on the origin of the universe, but I would like to hear what those that identify as atheist, non-theist, naturalist, etc think of the origin of the universe (or maybe no origin at all).
I don't know. Nobody knows for sure at this point. But I don't feel the need to have something explained by some supernatural event, just because I don't know.
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RE: Thoughts on origins
August 10, 2015 at 12:38 pm
I personally don't buy the big bang theory, believing it to be based on a misinterpretation of the redshift. There are a number of alternative cosmologies that have some merit. If I had to put money on something, I would say that the universe is infinite and eternal, or at least that the big bang figure of 14 billion years barely scratches the surface of what truely ancient means (if a human can put a figure to it we haven't understood it). On the other hand, the concepts of infinity and/or eternal are so mindbogglingly incomprehensible that we might is well say "don't know".
One thing that never enters my musings on the subject are magic sky daddys.
Grimesy
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Edward Gibbon
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