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RE: Dear Resident Theists
August 17, 2015 at 1:22 pm
(August 17, 2015 at 11:07 am)MysticKnight Wrote: I told you I took the assumption that God's Name/Face/Connection exists. That we do have knowledge of Him to a degree through that.
That's great. Now how would you go about testing that assumption?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Dear Resident Theists
August 17, 2015 at 6:52 pm
(This post was last modified: August 17, 2015 at 6:52 pm by Mystic.)
(August 17, 2015 at 11:17 am)Neimenovic Wrote: (August 17, 2015 at 11:07 am)MysticKnight Wrote: I told you I took the assumption that God's Name/Face/Connection exists. That we do have knowledge of Him to a degree through that.
Ok, but how do you figure your god and the first cause are synonymous? How do you figure it had to be your god? Why couldn't it have been anything else?
So your response is because being the creator is one of Allah's attributes? But there are dozens of creator gods out there. Is your conclusion based on revelation only?
Through God's Name/connection we can come to know he is the real true life by which all life exists, and the real existence that exists due to it's nature and not due to something else causing it to exist. It naturally follows that he is the Creator of all things and that there is no gods besides God.
We been given knowledge the true life/existence is God, which is why Quran emphasizes on the name Al-Hayu (The living/the existing).
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RE: Dear Resident Theists
August 17, 2015 at 7:09 pm
(August 17, 2015 at 1:22 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (August 17, 2015 at 11:07 am)MysticKnight Wrote: I told you I took the assumption that God's Name/Face/Connection exists. That we do have knowledge of Him to a degree through that.
That's great. Now how would you go about testing that assumption?
Through vision of the heart and hearing of the soul.
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RE: Dear Resident Theists
August 17, 2015 at 8:17 pm
(August 17, 2015 at 7:09 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (August 17, 2015 at 1:22 pm)Stimbo Wrote: That's great. Now how would you go about testing that assumption?
Through vision of the heart and hearing of the soul.
The heart has no eyes, there is no such thing as a soul and you make no sense.
There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide mankind that cannot be achieved as well or better through secular means.
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RE: Dear Resident Theists
August 17, 2015 at 8:41 pm
(August 17, 2015 at 7:09 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (August 17, 2015 at 1:22 pm)Stimbo Wrote: That's great. Now how would you go about testing that assumption?
Through vision of the heart and hearing of the soul.
And how would that work? What is your criteria for success/failure?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Dear Resident Theists
August 18, 2015 at 3:21 am
(This post was last modified: August 18, 2015 at 3:22 am by Longhorn.)
(August 17, 2015 at 6:52 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (August 17, 2015 at 11:17 am)Neimenovic Wrote: Ok, but how do you figure your god and the first cause are synonymous? How do you figure it had to be your god? Why couldn't it have been anything else?
So your response is because being the creator is one of Allah's attributes? But there are dozens of creator gods out there. Is your conclusion based on revelation only?
Through God's Name/connection we can come to know he is the real true life by which all life exists, and the real existence that exists due to it's nature and not due to something else causing it to exist. It naturally follows that he is the Creator of all things and that there is no gods besides God.
We been given knowledge the true life/existence is God, which is why Quran emphasizes on the name Al-Hayu (The living/the existing).
I get that Allah has these attributes, but I don't see how it 'follows naturally'. You say you know about them through the connection. How does one know a name of god?
But this is still diverting from what I'd like an answer to. I want to know why the first cause has to be conscious. Your answer seems to be that you can get to know god and find out that he is. That is a bit of a leap. We're approaching this in reverse, starting with your god and linking him to the creator. That's illogical, and confirmation bias. This way we could prove Yahweh because one of his attributes on the bible is being the creator. But it does not logically follow from the first cause. Do you see what I mean?
Let's pretend you just demonstrated the need for the universe to be created by an unmoved mover. How would you go about proving it had to be conscious?
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RE: Dear Resident Theists
August 18, 2015 at 4:21 am
(This post was last modified: August 18, 2015 at 4:23 am by robvalue.)
The idea that a supremely powerful being made us for entertainment is hopelessly ridiculous.
The idea that people make computer simulations is already known to be true. The only missing link there is that the "life forms" in the simulations could become self-aware. That's the only further assumption necessary. How is this not the simplest and most sensible scenario, if we accept that there is "a cause"?
How do theists rule this out, and instead go with bearded perfect superbeing creates a weird theatre for himself? It's essentially the same thing, now I think about it. He's created a simulation, and made the life forms self aware. It's just the beardy part that doesn't sit right with me.
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RE: Dear Resident Theists
August 18, 2015 at 7:08 am
(This post was last modified: August 18, 2015 at 7:08 am by Homeless Nutter.)
(August 17, 2015 at 7:09 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Through vision of the heart and hearing of the soul.
Do you mean - cardioscopy and listening to Aretha Franklin? At the same time?
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Dear Resident Theists
August 18, 2015 at 7:21 am
That... would be pretty awesome, actually.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Dear Resident Theists
August 18, 2015 at 8:02 am
(August 14, 2015 at 5:23 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: (August 14, 2015 at 4:15 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: Hey vic, thanks for creating the thread. Running out of time to respond, but as promised I will respond to this when I have some time as it's not a quick post. Just wanted to reply so it stays in "My Posts" for quick reference when I make my reply.
K~.....But I'm not holding my breath just in case.
You know, Randy said he'll get around to it....Some 2 months ago -_-
I did? Sorry...
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