Not all Muslims are Terrorists!

[abaris]

Okay? Sort of like the chants of death to America that happen all over the world. What does that have to do with what I'm talking about though?

Yes, what are you talking about? The terrorist header has no base in reality. The incitement part based on blanket statements has.

And you don't seem to get the difference between political leaders doing the incitment and enraged crowds. Maybe you don't have these kinds of guys in America, though, going by the state of the current republican field I doubt that. Or you are simply more indolent to the terminology used. At times it's word for word Nazi jargon. You just have to swap muslim with jew and we're exactly at the same point we were 80 years ago as far as words are concerned.

[CapnAwesome]

Okay? Sort of like the chants of death to America that happen all over the world. What does that have to do with what I'm talking about though?

Yes, what are you talking about? The terrorist header has no base in reality. The incitement part based on blanket statements has.

And you don't seem to get the difference between political leaders doing the incitment and enraged crowds. Maybe you don't have these kinds of guys in America, though, going by the state of the current republican field I doubt that. Or you are simply more indolent to the terminology used. At times it's word for word Nazi jargon. You just have to swap muslim with jew and we're exactly at the same point we were 80 years ago as far as words are concerned.

Haha, it never takes long for Nazis to be brought up I guess.

I think you are extrapolating way too much. I'm talking about a really specific statement "Not all Muslims are Terrorists" That is said all the time and is a dishonest argument. That's what I'm talking about.

[brewer]

And not all terrorists are muslims. Appears some are atheists.

http://dailycurrant.com/2014/07/29/radic...e-bombing/

Not sure how reputable the Daily Current is. There are several other sites with the same/similar story.

That's a satire site. Like the onion.

Still can't tell a POE. Oh, wait, mines a satire too, yeah, yeah, that's it.

[abaris]

Haha, it never takes long for Nazis to be brought up I guess.

I'm not using it lightly, since I know how often it's abused. Even more so, since the nazis are responsible that I haven't got any extended family. But that also is one of the reasons why I know their speeches almost by heart. And there are certain speeches today that only need to exchange the one crucial word to be taken from 80 years ago.

That's why I said, maybe you're more indolent when it comes to things like that. For me it's about a society and a world I don't want to live in. One that again uses blanket statements against a particular group of people instead of looking at individuals.

It doesn't make any difference that I'm not a member of the group in question. This time round.

[Napoléon]

I think you're arguing about something that's nothing to do with the point the OP was making abaris.

[abaris]

I think you're arguing about something that's nothing to do with the point the OP was making abaris.

In my book the point is moot to begin with, since it's not the problem. He's arguing against people rushing to the defense of muslims, but hardly anyone uses his OP argument. The arguments are many, among them Harris' statement that there are no moderates, the conspiracy to take over the West and many, many others. There's no outright quote about all muslims being terrorist, though Harris comes pretty close.

[CapnAwesome]

I think you're arguing about something that's nothing to do with the point the OP was making abaris.

In my book the point is moot to begin with, since it's not the problem. He's arguing against people rushing to the defense of muslims, but hardly anyone uses his OP argument. The arguments are many, among them Harris' statement that there are no moderates, the conspiracy to take over the West and many, many others. There's no outright quote about all muslims being terrorist, though Harris comes pretty close.

Pretty much what Napoleon said. But no, people say that all the time. All the time. I mean I hear it probably once a week at least. I probably read it on these forums frequently as almost an exact quote. I don't know how anyone who is involved in a debate about Islam can't hear it pretty much constantly.

To make it a little more general I think most people who defend Islam and aren't Muslim themselves use pretty dishonest tactics and argue against an imaginary foe or try to distract from the real issues that people have with Islam, or as you've done, try to somehow relate criticism of Islam with nazis and right wing groups, as though those are the only people who can have a problem with Islam, which is itself an extreme right wing ideology. To give credit to Muslims themselves, most of them online have a far more nuanced defense of Islam.

[abaris]

To make it a little more general I think most people who defend Islam and aren't Muslim themselves use pretty dishonest tactics and argue against an imaginary foe or try to distract from the real issues that people have with Islam, or as you've done, try to somehow relate criticism of Islam with nazis and right wing groups, as though those are the only people who can have a problem with Islam, which is itself an extreme right wing ideology. To give credit to Muslims themselves, most of them online have a far more nuanced defense of Islam.

No, stop it right there. Islam and muslim are two different issues. Most people - as you just have done - don't make that distinction. I don't defend Islam just as I don't defend any other religion carried to it's extreme. I oppose equating muslim with Islam and making blanket statements, which all too many people and organisations do.

And I'm sorry, they do use the same arguments the nazis used to discredit the jews. That's a fact. You just have to google what figures like Wilders - just to give one example - say and replace muslim with jew. I'm sure some nazi statement will crop up. It's scare tactics to cash in politically.

And I extend the same courtesy to members of other religions. As long as they're not radicals, I won't attack them. If they're radicals I won't defend them. But I never will make blanket statements about any given group, just because someone happens to be a member of that group.

[CapnAwesome]

To make it a little more general I think most people who defend Islam and aren't Muslim themselves use pretty dishonest tactics and argue against an imaginary foe or try to distract from the real issues that people have with Islam, or as you've done, try to somehow relate criticism of Islam with nazis and right wing groups, as though those are the only people who can have a problem with Islam, which is itself an extreme right wing ideology. To give credit to Muslims themselves, most of them online have a far more nuanced defense of Islam.

No, stop it right there. Islam and muslim are two different issues. Most people - as you just have done - don't make that distinction. I don't defend Islam just as I don't defend any other religion carried to it's extreme. I oppose equating muslim with Islam and making blanket statements, which all too many people and organisations do.

And I'm sorry, they do use the same arguments the nazis used to discredit the jews. That's a fact. You just have to google what figures like Wilders - just to give one example - say and replace muslim with jew. I'm sure some nazi statement will crop up. It's scare tactics to cash in politically.

And I extend the same courtesy to members of other religions. As long as they're not radicals, I won't attack them. If they're radicals I won't defend them. But I never will make blanket statements about any given group, just because someone happens to be a member of that group.

Lots of people use the same arguments as Nazis. But why are you bringing extreme right wing groups into this discussion at all? That's a very small percentage of the people who are critical of Muslims. Also on these forums people probably make blanket statements about Americans more than any other group.

[abaris]

Lots of people use the same arguments as Nazis. But why are you bringing extreme right wing groups into this discussion at all? That's a very small percentage of the people who are critical of Muslims.

Because they're influencial. At least in many European countries. Because they're happy to confirm every prejudice the ordinary citizens may have. Because they're presenting scapegoats at every single opportunity. Which, again, is the exact same thing the nazis did and how the thrived in economically difficult times.

And again, being critical of muslims means being critical of anyone sharing the coincidence of birth or upbringing. Which confirms more or less my point. It throws Bosnians, Turks, Kurds, Arabs, Indonesians, Azerbajans, Persians, Sunnis and Shias, numerous other ethnicities, ISIS and Al Quaida, who are opposed to each other, all into the same kettle without any regards of their affiliations, their ways of life and if they're going about their daily business or if they are radicals. Out comes an ignorant stew of prejudice.