Core Message Of Christianity Isn't One Of Love

[Minimalist]

Personally, I believe that after a person dies, they meet with God and see what He's all about.

This is far more likely.

[abaris]

What?? You clearly misunderstood me. 

By saying, evil is the absence of god - even on an individual level - you more or less include everyone not subscribing to the christian god by proxy. Unless you mean to say, god is there without them noticing.

See, it's a bit complicated. But these things usually are.

[Catholic_Lady]

What?? You clearly misunderstood me. 

By saying, evil is the absence of god - even on an individual level - you more or less include everyone not subscribing to the christian god by proxy. Unless you mean to say, god is there without them noticing.

See, it's a bit complicated. But these things usually are.

I said "absence of good."

But yes, I do believe that God is goodness. A person can be a good person and do good things without believing in God. But of course, I believe God is present.

[abaris]

I said "absence of good."

Yes, sorry. That I clearly misread for god.


But there's room for another discussion. Not in this thread, of course, about the definitions of good and evil.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Christians often ignore the fact the Jesus talked more about Hell than any other.  He mentions it frequently and drew many metaphors about how it is an eternal separation from God.  

You are cherry picking just as you accuse Christians of doing.  Read everything in its context.

In Matthew 15, there is an incident that, at first, seems to confirm the idea that Jesus came only for the Jews. Jesus was traveling through Tyre and Sidon, a Gentile region, and “a Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, ‘Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly’” (Matthew 15:22). This Gentile woman recognized Jesus as the Messiah (“Son of David”), but “Jesus did not answer a word” (verse 23). As the woman kept up her appeals, Jesus finally responded, but His words seemed to hold little hope: “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel” (verse 24). However, the woman did not give up, and Jesus eventually granted her request, based on her “great faith” (verse 28).

The fact that Jesus helped the Canaanite woman, even though His mission was to the Jews, is a significant detail in the Gospel narrative. Throughout His earthly ministry, Jesus gave other indications that His power and compassion reached to all people. He healed a Roman centurion’s servant (Luke 7:1–10). He traveled through the Gentile region of the Gerasenes (Mark 5:1). He ministered in a Samaritan city (John 4).

Jesus came to save everybody (1 John 2:2). Jesus Christ is God Himself (John 1:1). Jesus died on the cross as the payment for all our sins, and He rose from death in resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:3–4). Jesus said He was the Good Shepherd, and He predicted that His flock would be greatly expanded: “I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd” (John 10:16).

You're ignoring what Jesus said.  He clearly stated that God had sent him only to the Jews.  So by speaking to the Canaanite and Samaritan women he disobeyed God and sinned.  So God crucified his butt.  As the biblical stories clearly illustrate, you are not allowed to think for yourself and to determine what is good or evil.  Your duty is to obey and to believe, no deviations allowed for any reason.  Satan was a good angel until he started thinking for himself.  And when Jesus started to think for himself God beat the crap out of him and crucified him.  

The rule is:  believe and obey without exception.

[Ronkonkoma]

You should not interpret our Bible. I don't need your hate. Get rid of it if you want to talk.

You should read your favorite ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish religious fairy tale.  It's filled with hateful and evil things.  

Anything you post on this forum is subject to critical analysis so if you have tender feelings you may want to join another forum or grow a thicker hide.  You can alway put me on ignore but I will still comment on your posts if I so desire.

Better, yet, lose your hate, because otherwise its really really hard to talk to you.

---

You should not interpret our Bible. I don't need your hate. Get rid of it if you want to talk.

"Our Bible"?!?  

You mean that book whose whole first part was essentially stolen from the Jews by the ascendant Gentile Christians, re-ordered to better support the Christian story (after being shamelessly scoured for numerous spurious interpretations of Messianic "prophesies" that Jews dispute to this day), and rebranded the "Old Testament" . . . followed by the so-called "New Testament" that was arrived at only after a vote was taken by a group of the winners who emerged from the early church's intra-faith squabble prior to their gleefully suppressing every other Christian group they deemed heretics?

That book?

You're the descendant/beneficiary of one of the most shameful cultural heists and power grabs in history. Who are you to tell anyone that they shouldn't interpret your man-made, bullshit holy book?

What am I supposed to say to that? You want me to say anything? You're full of hate. I don't talk to people full of hat e because they do't listen to a word I have to say.

---

You should not interpret our Bible.

Why not? I'm certain he reads just as well, if not better than you.

I don't need your hate. Get rid of it if you want to talk.

The post you quoted was not hateful. If you're that sensitive, the Internet probably isn't for you, kid.

What is it about the internet that is different from you and me meeting on the street, in the work place? I guess that people can hide on the internet. Talk about their true ideas, be they the most radical. But is there place to forgive on the internet? To respect one another's opinion? Is there room for intelligence AND courtesy?

Who is to say there isn't?

---

You should read your favorite ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish religious fairy tale.  It's filled with hateful and evil things.  

Anything you post on this forum is subject to critical analysis so if you have tender feelings you may want to join another forum or grow a thicker hide.  You can alway put me on ignore but I will still comment on your posts if I so desire.

Better, yet, lose your hate, because otherwise its really really hard to talk to you.

---

"Our Bible"?!?  

You mean that book whose whole first part was essentially stolen from the Jews by the ascendant Gentile Christians, re-ordered to better support the Christian story (after being shamelessly scoured for numerous spurious interpretations of Messianic "prophesies" that Jews dispute to this day), and rebranded the "Old Testament" . . . followed by the so-called "New Testament" that was arrived at only after a vote was taken by a group of the winners who emerged from the early church's intra-faith squabble prior to their gleefully suppressing every other Christian group they deemed heretics?

That book?

You're the descendant/beneficiary of one of the most shameful cultural heists and power grabs in history. Who are you to tell anyone that they shouldn't interpret your man-made, bullshit holy book?

What am I supposed to say to that? You want me to say anything? You're full of hate. I don't talk to people full of hat e because they do't listen to a word I have to say.

---

Why not? I'm certain he reads just as well, if not better than you.


The post you quoted was not hateful. If you're that sensitive, the Internet probably isn't for you, kid.

What is it about the internet that is different from you and me meeting on the street, in the work place? I guess that people can hide on the internet. Talk about their true ideas, be they the most radical. But is there place to forgive on the internet? To respect one another's opinion? Is there room for intelligence AND courtesy?

Who is to say there isn't?

The post I quoted said that I worship the "wrong zombie". I don't talk to people who talk to me like that.

[Crossless2.0]

Ronkonkoma, you conclude I'm full of hate because I give you the Cliff's Notes intro. to the nature of your holy book? That's a laugh! Rather than play psychologist with people you don't know anything about, why not just admit that you don't care to be challenged?

[Rhondazvous]

Christians often ignore the fact the Jesus talked more about Hell than any other.  He mentions it frequently and drew many metaphors about how it is an eternal separation from God.  

You are cherry picking just as you accuse Christians of doing.  Read everything in its context.

In Matthew 15, there is an incident that, at first, seems to confirm the idea that Jesus came only for the Jews. Jesus was traveling through Tyre and Sidon, a Gentile region, and “a Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, ‘Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly’” (Matthew 15:22). This Gentile woman recognized Jesus as the Messiah (“Son of David”), but “Jesus did not answer a word” (verse 23). As the woman kept up her appeals, Jesus finally responded, but His words seemed to hold little hope: “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel” (verse 24). However, the woman did not give up, and Jesus eventually granted her request, based on her “great faith” (verse 28).

The fact that Jesus helped the Canaanite woman, even though His mission was to the Jews, is a significant detail in the Gospel narrative. Throughout His earthly ministry, Jesus gave other indications that His power and compassion reached to all people. He healed a Roman centurion’s servant (Luke 7:1–10). He traveled through the Gentile region of the Gerasenes (Mark 5:1). He ministered in a Samaritan city (John 4).

Jesus came to save everybody (1 John 2:2). Jesus Christ is God Himself (John 1:1). Jesus died on the cross as the payment for all our sins, and He rose from death in resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:3–4). Jesus said He was the Good Shepherd, and He predicted that His flock would be greatly expanded: “I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen



to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd” (John 10:16).

We must also not forget that There is no mention of hell in the Old Testament. Some translations use the word hell but if you look in a linear bible you will note that the original word is just talking about the grave, not the place of torment. Jesus was an apocalyptic Jew and taught concepts that you won't find among the prophets like the bosom of Abraham and the resurrection. think I'm wrong, then show me in the Ot examples of a general resurrection. Remember David said if he descended to hell god would be there, then someone else said there is no remembrance of god in the grave. The Bible is such that anybody who finds support for anything can be accused of cherry picking by anyone who finds support for the opposite view.

The Canaanite woman tells us nothing of Jesus view toward gentiles. He called them dogs and told his disciples not to give the dogs what belongs to the children. He told his disciples that the reason he spoke in parables was so that they who were without would not be able to understand him and repent and be forgiven. I'm not a Jew nor a gentile so I know he would consider me to be an outsider and hide from me the knowledge that would lead me to forgiveness. No matter what you say, I've already read what he said, or at least what the biblical writers said he said.

[Rhondazvous]

See above

[Mudhammam]

We must also not forget that There is no mention of hell in the Old Testament. Some translations use the word hell but if you  look in a linear bible you will note that the original word is just talking about the grave, not the place of torment. Jesus was an apocalyptic Jew and taught concepts that you won't find among the prophets like the bosom of Abraham and the resurrection.  think I'm wrong, then show me in the Ot examples of a general resurrection.  Remember David said if he descended to hell god would be there, then someone else said there is no remembrance of god in the grave. The Bible is such that anybody who finds support for anything can be accused of cherry picking by anyone who finds support for the opposite view.

The Canaanite woman tells us nothing of Jesus view toward gentiles. He called them dogs and told his disciples not to give the dogs what belongs to the children. He told his disciples that the reason he spoke in parables was so that they who were without would not be able to understand him and repent and be forgiven.  I'm not a Jew nor a gentile so I know he would consider me to be an outsider and hide from me the knowledge that would lead me to forgiveness. No matter what you say, I've already read what he said, or at least what the biblical writers said he said.

I'm fairly sure the Old Testament speaks of Sheol, or Hades, which to the ancients was the Underworld (because it was under the earth, or so they thought) and it basically served the purpose of heaven and hell - people are judged for their actions in life, the good rest in peace, and the bad are tortured and enslaved. Jesus taught this as well, in his story about the rich man and Lazarus, citing a river that divides the half containing the pious from those that are wicked. The early Christians even devoted an entire myth to Jesus going down to Hades to preach the Gospel so that all of the righteous Hebrews of old could be saved to partake in the future Resurrection. Even as "late" as the turn of the third century, Christian theologians taught that when you die, you go to Hades, or Abraham's bosom as they now called it, and you wait there until the Day of Judgment. When that occurs, the world supposedly goes to shit, the unbelievers are cast into hell, or the the lake of fire, and the Christians get to dwell in the new Jerusalem where Jesus reigns as monarch.