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The Seat of Man's Intellect: What Says Your God?
#11
RE: The Seat of Man's Intellect: What Says Your God?
(August 29, 2015 at 2:23 pm)Nestor Wrote:
(August 29, 2015 at 2:14 pm)Spooky Wrote: More often than not I've heard "Heart and Soul" referred to as the same item.  Heart/Soul/Intelligence/Intellect/Etc.  Whatever adjective/noun is used is still describing the same thing.

Perhaps I misunderstood you.  The argument is not over what that "Thing" is?
No. The argument is over where such a "Thing" is active in relation to a human body. I can assure you, it's not the heart, and when the ancients speak of it floating "about through the whole body," being "enclosed in the head" or "the crown of the head," or "around the basis of the brain," or "in the membranes thereof," or "in the space between the eyebrows," there's no confusion over what "body," "head," "crown," "brain," "membranes," or "space between the eyebrows" may be referring to. But you think when it talks of the "heart" it has a non-literal, special meaning?

I do not consider the "heart" to be anything special.

As a Psychologist I believe everything that makes a person who they are, is contained the brain.  Personality, unconscious, subconscious and etc.  People are just organic supercomputers.  Rather unexciting when compared to a "soul".  Smile
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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#12
RE: The Seat of Man's Intellect: What Says Your God?
(August 29, 2015 at 2:25 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:
(August 29, 2015 at 2:10 pm)Nestor Wrote: What does "heart" have to do with "intelligence" or "soul" or "mind"? The assumption is that either God knows how to use the words he's causing his communicators to write down for all of history, or that the people who wrote the word "heart" understood exactly what everyone - such as Aristotle or Tertullian - would take it to signify: the seat of man's intellect, soul, ruling faculty, whatever you want to call it.

368 The spiritual tradition of the Church also emphasizes the heart, in the biblical sense of the depths of one's being, where the person decides for or against God.239
Quite clearly, then, the "biblical sense" is wrong as it emphasizes an organ that has nothing to with "the depths of one's being" or "where the person decides"...

As was my point.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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#13
RE: The Seat of Man's Intellect: What Says Your God?
(August 29, 2015 at 1:48 pm)Spooky Wrote: Using religion to answer what I consider a medical question is a recipe for disaster.

It's called homeopathy and good vibes.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today. 


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#14
RE: The Seat of Man's Intellect: What Says Your God?
(August 29, 2015 at 1:48 pm)Spooky Wrote: Using religion to answer what I consider a medical question is a recipe for disaster.

Intellect is no doubt "seated" in the brain, which we don't have a clue how it works to produce a thought. On the other hand, psychiatrists recognize the brain as "the organ of purpose". Like the liver is producing bile. The brain is producing reasons to keep living, endure suffering, sacrifice for a cause, etc.

Intellect is different from the soul, which is the core of personhood, desire, values, and spirituality.

I would say, these things are registered and put into context by the brain, but they are not necessarily originating from the brain. An analogy would be a radio set that doesn't actually contain a small person inside, but is rather receiving and processing radio waves from outside.
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#15
RE: The Seat of Man's Intellect: What Says Your God?
My favorite part is that God poofs everything into existence (including Universe) out of nothing but for a Man he needs a "special" ingredient, dust, lol  Rolleyes
Why Won't God Heal Amputees ? 

Oči moje na ormaru stoje i gledaju kako sarma kipi  Tongue
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#16
RE: The Seat of Man's Intellect: What Says Your God?
(August 29, 2015 at 3:34 pm)FifthElement Wrote: My favorite part is that God poofs everything into existence (including Universe) out of nothing but for a Man he needs a "special" ingredient, dust, lol  Rolleyes

 Okay sonny, let's see you make a living man from dust. Go only needed a samll part of one day, I'll give you 20 years. I'll bet you don't know how many times God actually created over the six days, do you?

GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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#17
RE: The Seat of Man's Intellect: What Says Your God?
(August 29, 2015 at 1:47 pm)Nestor Wrote: In the ancient world, there was some confusion as to the precise location of the intellect, or the “ruling faculty.” Is it, they pondered, to be placed in the head, as Plato thought, or more specifically the brain, as insisted Hippocrates? In the heart, as Aristotle and the Stoics believed? Does it float about somehow throughout the entire body?


Excellent point.  If there were a god, it would know that the brain is where the action is, mentally speaking.  That many primitive people believed that it was the heart or something else shows that they did not know, which was excusable for them back then.  But when they tell us that that is what their god says, it proves that either their god is an idiot, a liar, or their god never said any such thing, perhaps because their god simply does not exist.


People now are so accustomed to thinking of this matter as metaphor that they often fail to recognize the fact that the idea that the heart is the seat of the emotions was not originally believed metaphorically at all, but was meant literally.  (Just as you rightly point out.)  We read such things metaphorically now because we know better than to believe that the heart has anything to do with emotion (at least some of us do).

The "heart" is now a metaphor for the seat of emotions because many primitive people got it wrong.  The heart is just a pump to move blood around the body, and had the ancients known that, it would not now be used metaphorically as something to do with the emotions.  If they had instead believed that the spleen was the seat of emotions, we would now be using the spleen as a metaphor for our emotions.

"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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#18
RE: The Seat of Man's Intellect: What Says Your God?
^Exactly, Pyrrho.

I had to do a double take when Randy suggested that, according to Catholic doctrine, God was simply speaking in idioms - when people actually believed the literal truth of its content, and - at least to some extent - couldn't have been expected to know otherwise.

Then again, they want to say the same thing about the sun "standing still" in the sky for 24 hours...
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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#19
RE: The Seat of Man's Intellect: What Says Your God?
(August 29, 2015 at 6:11 pm)Nestor Wrote: ^Exactly, Pyrrho.

I had to do a double take when Randy suggested that, according to Catholic doctrine, God was simply speaking in idioms - when people actually believed the literal truth of its content, and - at least to some extent - couldn't have been expected to know otherwise.

Could you expand on this, Nestor?

How is the idea that the term "heart", a metaphor or idiom for that innermost place within man, problematic?

What are we really saying when we say that an athlete has "heart" or that we know something to be true in our "heart of hearts".
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#20
RE: The Seat of Man's Intellect: What Says Your God?
(August 29, 2015 at 6:33 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:
(August 29, 2015 at 6:11 pm)Nestor Wrote: ^Exactly, Pyrrho.

I had to do a double take when Randy suggested that, according to Catholic doctrine, God was simply speaking in idioms - when people actually believed the literal truth of its content, and - at least to some extent - couldn't have been expected to know otherwise.

Could you expand on this, Nestor?

How is the idea that the term "heart", a metaphor or idiom for that innermost place within man, problematic?

What are we really saying when we say that an athlete has "heart" or that we know something to be true in our "heart of hearts".

"heart" is just another way to say emotions. Like you feel god in your "heart" it's just your brain making you feel good giving you pleasant emotions. 
Like the one bible passage to think of killing is doing the same as killing in your "heart" just another word for emotions.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today. 


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