Believers don't believe

[Baird]

Mankind has spoken to God, they have witnessed visions of his existence. Why wouldn't I believe? These men claimed to witness God. They have proof he existed, so they wrote it down for all generations to see.

But you're forgetting one little detail:
These people were not capable of scientifically explaining what they have seen, so they give the credit to a supernatural force, in this case, an invisible man, high in the sky, watching your every move and the greatest part is: he should have billions of eyes, if he watches EVERYBODY. So, there, one thing that makes him less look like us. In other words, if we would have been created as the image of God, we would have billions of eyes...And I only see 2 of those nifty little things when I look in the mirror.

Oh, and another thing:
If God ever were to come down from the heavens and come here on earth....They'd dump him in a mental hospital, I can assure you that.
That's a quote by Erica Jong.
And you know what Adriaan Roland Host once said?
That God created man...Is doubtable...That man created God, is certain!

Think about it.

[Edwardo Piet]

The creation of life form is evidence of God. Non-life didn't kickstart itself into existence without something there to control it.

But WE are made from non-life. When non-life gets complicated and sophisticated enough it becomes life I believe. I believe its when RNA become DNA, if I've heard and remembered correctly.
We are mostly made of water. And we are made up of non-living elements such as: Oxygen, Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Calcium, etc.
Non life was first. Then came life. For we are just biological robots really. A human being is basically about 100 trillion cells.

[Kyuuketsuki]

The creation of life form is evidence of God. Non-life didn't kickstart itself into existence without something there to control it.

Or it may have been Chaos that gave birth to Gaea, Tartarus, Nyx, Eros and Erebus? Or maybe it all came from the Ginnungagap? Or maybe Trimurti of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva formed all that is? OTOH it might just be an unanswered question, something that science can work on and one day they might have an answer?

What kind of dragon? Kamoda-Dragon? I believe you, why wouldn't I believe it?

How about an invisible one with pink and purple spots, breathes purple fire and has green fluorescent wings ... oh yea it eats people, it's invisible and it goes by the name of Bob.

The flying spaghetti monster was invented by a group of atheists at an "Atheist vs. Theist" debate session. So, therefore, we know it's "invented".

The Christian God was invented a few thousand year ago by mankind.

well, the day you can show me ancient texts of a flying spaghetti monster creating mankind from dust, then we can further this debate, until then, you don't have a ton historical documents on your side like I do.

We can show the ancient texts of religions that pre-date Christianity ... are they then more valid?

Mankind has spoken to God, they have witnessed visions of his existence. Why wouldn't I believe? These men claimed to witness God. They have proof he existed, so they wrote it down for all generations to see.

Where is this proof and is it validatable?

Kyu

[lukec]

Yes, and where is this "ton of historical documents"? I count one, and it's not historical.

[Purple Rabbit]

Now I say there is a flying spagehtti monster which is invisible, why won't you believe it? What evidence do you have to say it's not real?

The flying spaghetti monster was invented by a group of atheists at an "Atheist vs. Theist" debate session. So, therefore, we know it's "invented".

You haven't proven it's non-existence, you haven't seriously tried to investigate it by introspection and praying. And surely you must acknowledge that the FSM adepts must have been sincerely and divinely inspired because nothing can come from nothing. Although they might think they invented the FSM the only valid conclusion can be that divine inspiration gave 'm the hunch. That is if you mantain that nothing can come from nothing. We can of course take a scientific approach in this and compare results of praying to your god with praying to the FSM.

[Dotard]

Damn. My thread has been de-railed into a discussion of burden of proof.

Isn't there a thread about that somewhere over there?--->

Let me try to put the topic in a better perspective.

Humor me for a moment and assign a 80 year life span to yourself and at your moment of birth you have conitigive abilities and can comprehend "if and then" scenarios. (If I do this, then that will happen)

When you are born I give you a book. In this book are my outlines for what you need to do in order to gain my grace and allow you to live out your life in bliss. If you do not gain my favor, you die within that same moment. You have 60 seconds (compairative 60 seconds in an 80 year span to our lifetimes to eternity) to complete this task.

Would you follow some of the instructions and leave the rest in hopes that I'll "understand"? If one of my commandments was to go out and "spread my word" would you not spend every single second from your 60 doing so? If I told you "No Copulation" would you still do it and just blame it on "weakness of the flesh"? Would you follow the commandments in my book without regard for any earthly ramifications arising from following said instructions? If following my directions in the first 5 seconds got you tossed in jail or the looney-bin for the remaining 55 seconds would you not care as you have 80 years of blissful living to look forward to afterwards?

That is the gist of what my OP was all about. Not burden of proof.

[Edwardo Piet]

Yes I responded to it as at least some others did. It just kind of drifted off hopefully we can get back on topic now.
Yes I agree that I think if theists actually believed everything that they said they believed. They'd act differently.
One way around this for them that I can think of is if they actually believe their thoughts are inspired by God. And their interpretations of the bible, the Koran, etc are inspired by God. So they make up the rules. This of course is some serious bullshit. Delusional bullshit. And potentially dangerous bullshit.

[Dotard]

...they actually believe their thoughts are inspired by God. And their interpretations of the bible, the Koran, etc are inspired by God.

As evidenced by a poster on this board (Psalm, I thinks) who posted he "knows what God is thinking".

[Edwardo Piet]

Indeed. When I was discussing with him he told me he "I know what God is thinking". How delusional can you get? I dunno, delusion seems pretty boundless lol. No matter how delusional you are you can always get more delusional. Although some people in the world its hard to imagine HOW they could be more delusional exactly!

[Purple Rabbit]

Indeed. When I was discussing with him he told me he "I know what God is thinking". How delusional can you get? I dunno, delusion seems pretty boundless lol. No matter how delusional you are you can always get more delusional. Although some people in the world its hard to imagine HOW they could be more delusional exactly!

This points strongly in the direction that some believers themselves have aspirations to be as god. People who say that they can read the mind of god wanna be in control. Contantine the Great is a good example. For he took a direct interest in matters of doctrine, setting a precedent for future emperors, and called the first Oecumenical Council of the Catholic Church (at Nicaea).