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(September 11, 2015 at 10:49 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(September 11, 2015 at 10:44 pm)Losty Wrote: I don't think anyone really believes all lives are worth the same.
Maybe not, but I think it's something we should all strive for.
No we should not. No reasonable person believes that a serial killer is worth the same as Einstein. You don't believe it and it would be better if you did not pretend to believe such nonsense.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
(September 11, 2015 at 10:49 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Maybe not, but I think it's something we should all strive for.
No we should not. No reasonable person believes that a serial killer is worth the same as Einstein. You don't believe it and it would be better if you did not pretend to believe such nonsense.
I do believe it. Which is why I'm against the death penalty. I don't think committing horrible crimes takes away the inherent dignity of a person's life.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
Abortion should always be the decision of the woman carrying the parasite. I am and will always be pro choice because it is not my place to inform any woman what she should do with her body.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
September 11, 2015 at 11:37 pm (This post was last modified: September 11, 2015 at 11:42 pm by Thumpalumpacus.)
(September 10, 2015 at 12:31 pm)Godschild Wrote: This has to be the sickest thing I've seen here, you need help and I advise you to run not walk to get it and may God have mercy on you. There are so many things wrong with this one has trouble trying to find a starting point, anyone who would not just suggest murder but to advocate it is sick beyond belief.
GC
Of course it's sick. It's based on Christian doctrine.
Oh, and if you ever decide to read, you know, literature, you might want to check out Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal. It's amazing, the insight a little education can provide you.
(September 11, 2015 at 11:14 pm)Kitan Wrote: Abortion should always be the decision of the woman carrying the parasite. I am and will always be pro choice because it is not my place to inform any woman what she should do with her body.
This. And also I find it is completely not my place to judge anyone on what they do with their body. It shouldn't even be a question of morality. If it's not your body, it's not your fucking business.
(September 11, 2015 at 5:21 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(September 11, 2015 at 4:39 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: So, even though I would have likely died if I had carried to term, it's heinous? You just said all life is precious. A cluster of cells is more precious than the life I've been forging for thirty eight years?
Here's the the thing that I didn't tell you: the fetus was dead when I aborted it because my body isn't ideal for pregnancy. I was told at the age of twenty-two that I'd likely never even get pregnant, let alone carry a pregnancy to term, and if I tried, I'd be putting my life at major risk. Because of that, when I did get pregnant, I had a hard time deciding what to do, and when I made my decision and went to get an abortion, they told me the fetus was dead- I planned on aborting anyway.
Was my abortion heinous?
First of all, I am so sorry you went through that. My friend just lost her baby only days after she realized she was pregnant, and she's devastated.
I guess I should have specified that by "abortion" I mean deliberately killing an unborn baby. A spontaneous abortion/miscarriage is what happened to you, so no, you didn't do anything I think is wrong or "heinous."
With that being said I still don't support abortion in those cases because I see every human life as equal. I do think it's immoral to just downright kill one innocent person in order to save another innocent person. But when faced with very difficult moral questions like this, we have to comb through the very fine details. For example, in the case of an ectopic pregnancy where the mom and the baby are sure to die anyway, I don't think it's wrong to remove the damaged Fallopian tube. Or in the case where a pregnancy becomes very dangerous, just for the mom, I don't think it's wrong to try to remove the baby as safely as possible and try to get him/her to survive somehow. Of course, he/she will probably die, especially if they are still very young, but at least you removed the mom from the dangerous situation she was in without cutting the baby apart, or whatever other method (I'll spare the nasty details), and still trying to save him/her too.
This may seem petty to a lot of people, but it's mainly about the principle. It's about not forgetting that every human life is equal. It would not be consistent if we said every life is equal and then turned around and said one innocent life takes precedence over another if one if still in the womb.
But I would have had the abortion anyway... I would have killed the unborn *fetus* anyway. I was just under four months along, and I already felt the overwhelming toll it was taking on my body. But that didn't even matter: I never wanted kids, even before the doctor told me they weren't feasible. I would have, sure, taken better precautions with birth control, but if I became pregnant healthfully, I probably still would have aborted. Deliberately.
Did I just get lucky? If so, how does that make every life "equal"? I mean, according to your theology, your god made me, right? All of me? Even the part of me that would have made the decision to have an abortion, healthy or not?
September 12, 2015 at 3:39 am (This post was last modified: September 12, 2015 at 3:42 am by Longhorn.)
(September 12, 2015 at 3:24 am)rexbeccarox Wrote: I mean, according to your theology, your god made me, right? All of me? Even the part of me that would have made the decision to have an abortion, healthy or not?
And if we follow that idea, he made you unable to become healthily pregnant in the first place....so god aborted the fetus himself.
I'm sorry to hear of it, Becca, and though my opinion is entirely irrelevant, I think your decision would've been right and reasonable even if the fetus wasn't dead. I hope it didn't cause you any serious health complications?
(September 10, 2015 at 6:21 am)robvalue Wrote: If you're part of a religion such as Christianity or Islam, then aborting your children before they are born (or killing them just after they are born) is the most loving thing you can do for them.
First of all, you eliminate the risk that they might end up in hell by failing to follow the rules correctly.
Second, they go straight to heaven without any of the pain or heartache this life brings. They begin infinite happiness right away.
And third, it's insurance against them picking the wrong religion.
Even if we pretend there is definitely a god, and it's definitely either Yahweh or Allah, that means every Christian and Muslim is taking a risk. If they don't kill their baby, it might not go to heaven by picking wrong. You may be in the wrong religion and it may copy you, or you may be in the right religion and it may stray to another.
By killing it, the God can't say it picked wrong, so must send it to heaven! Even if you've picked wrong, in which case you're going to hell regardless, you save your child the same fate.
The ultimate act of love! So how can you object, and why don't you do it? Is it because you're hedging your bets in case the whole thing is actually made up?
This has to be the sickest thing I've seen here, you need help and I advise you to run not walk to get it and may God have mercy on you. There are so many things wrong with this one has trouble trying to find a starting point, anyone who would not just suggest murder but to advocate it is sick beyond belief.
GC
hahahhaahhahhhahhah.............so start somewhere then
(September 12, 2015 at 3:24 am)rexbeccarox Wrote: I mean, according to your theology, your god made me, right? All of me? Even the part of me that would have made the decision to have an abortion, healthy or not?
And if we follow that idea, he made you unable to become healthily pregnant in the first place....so god aborted the fetus himself.
I'm sorry to hear of it, Becca, and though my opinion is entirely irrelevant, I think your decision would've been right and reasonable even if the fetus wasn't dead. I hope it didn't cause you any serious health complications?
I don't think it did. Thanks for asking, Vic
Incidentally, my mom had an emergency C-section with me, and a planned one with my sister. She had a hysterectomy at the age of under-forty. My dad's mom had miscarriage after miscarriage (I think I remember eight in total) before she finally had him when she was forty two (almost unheard-of in 1949). My sister, my mom, and I all have similar internal shit going on, but my sister and I got, like, the super gene to not have children from both sides.
I had a 75% chance of living through that pregnancy with, obviously, a 0% chance of that fetus becoming viable.
If you're part of a religion such as Christianity or Islam, then aborting your children before they are born (or killing them just after they are born) is the most loving thing you can do for them.
First of all, you eliminate the risk that they might end up in hell by failing to follow the rules correctly.
Second, they go straight to heaven without any of the pain or heartache this life brings. They begin infinite happiness right away.
And third, it's insurance against them picking the wrong religion.
Even if we pretend there is definitely a god, and it's definitely either Yahweh or Allah, that means every Christian and Muslim is taking a risk. If they don't kill their baby, it might not go to heaven by picking wrong. You may be in the wrong religion and it may copy you, or you may be in the right religion and it may stray to another.
By killing it, the God can't say it picked wrong, so must send it to heaven! Even if you've picked wrong, in which case you're going to hell regardless, you save your child the same fate.
The ultimate act of love! So how can you object, and why don't you do it? Is it because you're hedging your bets in case the whole thing is actually made up?
This has to be the sickest thing I've seen here, you need help and I advise you to run not walk to get it and may God have mercy on you. There are so many things wrong with this one has trouble trying to find a starting point, anyone who would not just suggest murder but to advocate it is sick beyond belief.
GC
By fundamentalist Southern Baptist lore, didn't your god literally kill every baby on the earth in the flood? -Not to mention everyone else save for a certain family that got incestuous later on-
He struck in Egypt too, specifically targeting firstborns -large or small- didn't he?
If anything is sick here, Godschild, it's your belief system and not the satire that was intended to jumpstart your religion-addled mind. You sanctimonious, dense, twit.
(September 17, 2015 at 4:04 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I make change in the coin tendered. If you want courteous treatment, behave courteously. Preaching at me and calling me immoral is not courteous behavior.
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