Mormon Church Admits Smith Married 14 year old

[JesusHChrist]

It seems the Mormon Church is on a tear to divulge all sorts of items they had previously kept quiet. First, there was the admission the golden plates were translated with egg-shaped seer stones, and now this. It's marketing, but in reverse. We call it "reverse marketing". Sorta like "with a name like Smuckers, it has to be good." But with Mormons....

Way back in Ye Early American Days, J Smith did in fact, wed multiple women, including a 14 year old daughter of a member. 

The article acknowledges that many details about polygamy in early Mormonism are hazy because members were taught to keep their actions confidential. But, research has indicated that Smith's marriage to the young girl might not have involved sex.
Some plural marriages were designed to seal the man to the woman for eternity only, and not life and eternity as Mormons believe, the article says. Those types of marriages didn't seem to involve sex.
Little is known about Smith's marriages to the already-married women, the article says. They also might have been the type of unions that didn't involve sex.

Very similar to when the Jews during warfare, killed all the men and captured the women, they didn't make sex slaves out of them. If you believe that, I have bridges for sale. Excellent prices. Hardly used. Top quality.

"Difficult as it was, the introduction of plural marriage in Nauvoo did indeed 'raise up seed' unto God," the article says. "A substantial number of today's members descend through faithful Latter-day Saints who practiced plural marriage."

Yes, quite difficult for J Smith.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/27...54272.html

[Jackalope]

I guess I'm having trouble seeing the scandal here - 14 was well above the age of consent at the time. Yeah, it offends modern sensibilities, but not contemporary.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Hell, in 1840 she would have been an old maid at 14. The age of consent was 7 in 1895.

[MentalGiant]

Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed.

It was a different timeframe in history. People weren't coddled and considered children until age 25.

[Minimalist]

None of which alters the fact that mormons are scum.

[MentalGiant]

None of which alters the fact that mormons are scum.

To be honest, some of the genuinely nicest people I've ever met are Mormons (mainstream ones, not the polygamous FLDS ones). Fucked belief system, but truly want to do good in the world.

[Minimalist]

I don't believe that.  Mormons are never far from marketing their bullshit.

[MentalGiant]

Friends of my husbands from high school he played sports with, not the ones who knock on your door on a Tuesday afternoon to tell you the good word. They really are nice people, I've never felt pressured into Mormonism by them, not sure they've ever mentioned it (my husband told me they were mormons). I don't have an unkind word about them actually... Now if you want to talk about aggressive marketing, don't even get me started on Jehovah's Witnesses and the Potters House crackpots.

[vorlon13]

Another difficulty with Mormon polygamy was the Mormons cited the Old Testament version of it as their model.  As it turns out, there are rules for it in the Old Testament, and the Mormons (for the most part) did not like some of those rules. So there is that.

One man marrying sisters, for instance, and/or marrying a mother and her daughter are prohibited in the OT.  When the Mormons were working up the rules, just citing the Old Testament as justification did not imply to them, however, that all the Old Testament rules about would have to be observed too.


Further complicating our view of Mormon polygamy are several facets of Mormonism:

Their history is quite fluid, inconvenient events have been deleted.  Events deemed desirable that never occurred have been made up and put in the records.  Individuals in the Mormon hierarchy who  deleted and made up events were lax about checking to see if earlier versions of the story had been previously published, and further, the were especially lax about checking how many different versions of a particular item had already been published.

And bizarrely, it almost invariably was the Mormon church publishing concerns doing it, not outsiders.

Also, God commanded the Mormons to be record keeping people.  So they are.  There are difficulties however, when it is revealed the records have been fudged, and fudged often, and often with comic ineptness.

Then  we have folks in their organization that should know better (but don't) who have trouble even imagining any connivance has occurred in the church records, who can trot out and convincingly assert something, and then when conflicting data is presented they either have to back track, or just stop addressing the matter.

And another problem, as noted, the Bible, for instance, contains rules for polygamy.  So too the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, and Doctrines and Covenants.  The unpublished by the Mormon Church (RLDS did publish) Joseph Smith revised Bible also has sections on polygamy, and also, Brigham Young has had sermons addressing it published and he asserted everything he said and wrote was Gospel.

(you already see where this is headed, LOL)

All of those different books don't agree with each other, Brigham frequently went off the reservation too, and Doctrines and Covenants, Book of Mormon, and Pearl of Great Price have all been repeatedly revised and changed, and apparently no one was tasked with keeping track of continuity among all of that.

The Mormon archives contain a plethora of additional materials too, old journals and diaries, other Mormon published pamphlets and books, and even business records.  If you want to look at something, permission to do so will likely depend on whether or not the item contains any historical or doctrinal issues the church would not like to see attention drawn to.  If you want Grandma Perkins 1883 cake recipe, there probably won't be a problem with that.  If you want to review an old settlers journal, and he had multiple wives, that journal might be 'unavailable'.

There have also been instances of church leaders out right lying about matters deemed to be a problem.  The 'original' rescission of polygamy seems to have been more of PR release to placate non-members of the church that were opposed to Mormon polygamy.  Until an actual directive with teeth was issued to the flock, polygamy was still going on.  When called on it, church leaders would just lie.  Towards the end of the polygamy experiment, church leaders would go to Mexico or off shore to perform polygamitic marriages for themselves and high ranking members. And then return to the US and lie about having done it.

And here's the deep end:

What do Mormons mean by the term 'marriage' ? 

Well, they have marriage for time.  Apparently this is the 'til death you do part' and includes sex and kids.  And they have marriage for eternity. That can be complicated, and the Mormons probably can't explain it in a way anyone here would find satisfying , but they themselves would insist it makes perfect sense.  And if you paid attention to several Mormons explaining it, you would find they all have a different take on it, and all would agree they were in 100% agreement on the topic.

Dead people can get married too.

It's getting late, and the Mormon befuddlement on marriage would take pages to go over, and it wouldn't be clear or consistent, let's just leave with an admonition that the Mormons are profoundly confused and confusing on the topic, and since their records are literally chaos, no one is going to ever get to the bottom of any of it.

[vorlon13]

Another difficulty with Mormon polygamy was the Mormons cited the Old Testament version of it as their model.  As it turns out, there are rules for it in the Old Testament, and the Mormons (for the most part) did not like some of those rules. So there is that.

One man marrying sisters, for instance, and/or marrying a mother and her daughter are prohibited in the OT.  When the Mormons were working up the rules, just citing the Old Testament as justification did not imply to them, however, that all the Old Testament rules about it would have to be observed too.


Further complicating our view of Mormon polygamy are several facets of Mormonism:

Their history is quite fluid, inconvenient events have been deleted.  Events deemed desirable that never occurred have been made up and put in the records.  Individuals in the Mormon hierarchy who  deleted and made up events were lax about checking to see if earlier versions of the story had been previously published, and further, the were especially lax about checking how many different versions of a particular item had already been published.

And bizarrely, it almost invariably was the Mormon church publishing concerns doing it, not outsiders.

Also, God commanded the Mormons to be record keeping people.  So they are.  There are difficulties however, when it is revealed the records have been fudged, and fudged often, and often with comic ineptness.

Then  we have folks in their organization that should know better (but don't) who have trouble even imagining any connivance has occurred in the church records, who can trot out and convincingly assert something, and then when conflicting data is presented they either have to back track, or just stop addressing the matter.

And another problem, as noted, the Bible, for instance, contains rules for polygamy.  So too the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, and Doctrines and Covenants.  The unpublished by the Mormon Church (RLDS did publish) Joseph Smith revised Bible also has sections on polygamy, and also, Brigham Young has had sermons addressing it published and he asserted everything he said and wrote was Gospel.

(you already see where this is headed, LOL)

All of those different books don't agree with each other, Brigham frequently went off the reservation too, and Doctrines and Covenants, Book of Mormon, and Pearl of Great Price have all been repeatedly revised and changed, and apparently no one was tasked with keeping track of continuity among all of that.

The Mormon archives contain a plethora of additional materials too, old journals and diaries, other Mormon published pamphlets and books, and even business records.  If you want to look at something, permission to do so will likely depend on whether or not the item contains any historical or doctrinal issues the church would not like to see attention drawn to.  If you want Grandma Perkins 1883 cake recipe, there probably won't be a problem with that.  If you want to review an old settlers journal, and he had multiple wives, that journal might be 'unavailable'.

There have also been instances of church leaders out right lying about matters deemed to be a problem.  The 'original' rescission of polygamy seems to have been more of PR release to placate non-members of the church that were opposed to Mormon polygamy.  Until an actual directive with teeth was issued to the flock, polygamy was still going on.  When called on it, church leaders would just lie.  Towards the end of the polygamy experiment, church leaders would go to Mexico or off shore to perform polygamitic marriages for themselves and high ranking members. And then return to the US and lie about having done it.

And here's the deep end:

What do Mormons mean by the term 'marriage' ? 

Well, they have marriage for time.  Apparently this is the 'til death you do part' and includes sex and kids.  And they have marriage for eternity. That can be complicated, and the Mormons probably can't explain it in a way anyone here would find satisfying , but they themselves would insist it makes perfect sense.  And if you paid attention to several Mormons explaining it, you would find they all have a different take on it, and all would agree they were in 100% agreement on the topic.

Dead people can get married too.

It's getting late, and the Mormon befuddlement on marriage would take pages to go over, and it wouldn't be clear or consistent, let's just leave with an admonition that the Mormons are profoundly confused and confusing on the topic, and since their records are literally chaos, no one is going to ever get to the bottom of any of it.