The Paradox of Power....

[Thumpalumpacus]

You strain over maybe 20,000 killed by Christians in the dark ages no less.

Firstly, one iniquitous death is a charge against your faith, but you vastly understate the number. And you're ignoring the millions put to death in the Thirty Years' War, which was a battle between Protestants and Catholics -- both Christians. You completely ignore the hundreds of thousands who were killed by Christians in the Crusades -- how many were there, eleven? Twelve? -- and you ignore the fact that all those deaths by Christians whom you're defending here in this thread are violations of a commandment your own god saw fit to lay down.

How do you think he feels seeing you side with human failures against his Holy Word?

Are you not worried about your mortal soul

And, wouldya please go buy a fucking education?

[Edwardo Piet]

The Crusades is a pretty big thing for a Christian to miss. Oh right it was in God's name but wasn't what he wanted. Even though he explicitly stated it repeatedly in his terribly written shitty book the Wholly Babble wasn't it called?

[TheRocketSurgeon]

On Aug. 24, 1572 – St. Bartholomew’s Day – and several days thereafter, Frenchmen slaughtered 100,000 of their Huguenot countrymen throughout France – 10,000 in Paris alone. The favorite disposal site, the Seine, the Rhone, and the rivers of France were stained red by the oozing corpses left rotting.

Another 6,000 slain downriver in Rouen would have injected the Seine with a fetid ribbon of crimson as it meandered towards the Atlantic. The Loire River valley, so strewn with corpses, brought normally shy and unseen packs of wolves streaming down from their cover in the hills to feed on the freshly killed. The fish from the rivers of France would be unsafe to eat for months.

This incident, known as the St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre, would be the bloodiest week in the history of the Huguenots – French Protestants – and the blackest day in French history. Their story is marked by unrelenting episodes of harassments, property seizures, tortures, executions, and slaughters.
[...]

Within a week, up to 100,000 Huguenots were slain.

http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/churcha...sacre.aspx

[Edwardo Piet]

Yeah, best us not ignore 100,000 crusading morons.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm thinking Ronnie is going to bail out from this barrage of facts.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

20,000 is a pretty amazing figure to throw out there as an assertion.

There are Muslim cities destroyed by the Crusaders that were more than 20,000 people.

A single example, from the website below:

after 6/3/98 Antiochia (then turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women & children) killed. [WW32-35]
Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents—save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres. [EC60]

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

Sources cited in quote:

[EC]
P.W.Edbury, Crusade and Settlement, Cardiff Univ. Press 1985.

[WW]
H.Wollschlger: Die bewaffneten Wallfahrten gen Jerusalem, Zrich 1973.

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I'm thinking Ronnie is going to bail out from this barrage of facts.

Please. When have facts ever slowed a fundie down?

[Thumpalumpacus]

He doesn't have facts on his side. If he doesn't bail literally, he will digress.

[Silver]

Theists are continually confusing faith with fact.

[ronedee]

I'm thinking Ronnie is going to bail out from this barrage of facts.

Though conducted with the blessing of the Catholic Church, the Crusades were carried out by governmental authorities: Dukes, Kings, and so on. So you can't refer to them as an inquisition directed by RCC. Unfortunately, RCC gets most of the credit from a flag.

The First Crusade famously slaughtered almost all the inhabitants of Jersusalem, most of whom were Christians and Jews. The Crusades were essentially a barbarian invasion of the civilized middle east and like many barbarian invasions they were quite brutal but succeeded in the end in civilizing the barbarians. And eventually recovering most of what was taken.

That said, those were barbaric times which called for drastic measures. aka WAR. Actually you could thank the Crusaders that you are not wearing a turban, and praying to Allah now!

My reference was to innocents wrongly accused, tried and killed directly by the RCC. I actually have no idea what that number could be. Neither does anyone else; when estimates run from thousands to millions!

I'll have better numbers for you in the future.... if I feel like it.

[Silver]

That said, those were barbaric times which called for drastic measures. aka WAR.

I believe, my dear, that you are confusing war with events that are sincerely and obviously religiously driven, to the very point that religion can be shown as the culprit for stated events as having occurred.

And, to be honest, does the church not offer guidance to those in power? If the church was truly so holy and so opposed to war, since Jesus was such a pacifist, then would the church not offer advice and guidance in such a way that war was avoided?

The church has forever been corrupted, from within.