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RE: Why atheism cannot escape absolute truth
October 24, 2015 at 2:25 pm
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2015 at 3:20 pm by Fidel_Castronaut.)
(October 24, 2015 at 2:10 pm)Delicate Wrote: (October 24, 2015 at 5:15 am)Pandæmonium Wrote: What on earth do you mean 'unargued assertions'? Let's take a look at who is making a claim here. Is it me? No. Is it you? Yah, looks like it. Looks like you're making a claim about the existence of objective truth(s).
This whole nonsense about defence mechanisms and all that bollocks, stick a sock in it yeah?
You give yourself far too much credit. To us you're just another person trying to peddle the same claim that's been peddled on here and elsewhere a million times but still hasn't presented an ounce of evidence for it. Indeed it seems like you've reverted to utilising straw men in your attempt to grasp at straws.
Let me be clear for clarity, you are delusional both in your beliefs and the level of effect you think you are having. You are not original, none of your thoughts to date on here are original, and there is nothing you have said or presented that makes me or anyone else want to reconsider their stance that there appears to be no such thing as an 'objective' truth. None. Feel free to think that is a defence mechanism or whatever such nonsense you can contrive, it doesn't make a difference to the reality of your delusions.
If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were a Southern Baptist preacher.
Amen brother!
And yet, when I look closely at what you're saying, it's nonsense. You can't handwave away evidence and then claim no evidence was presented. That makes you look like an idiot at best, or an intellectually dishonest charlatan at worst.
I suggest you avoid looking like an idiot or a charlatan. What you can do is look at the OP, look at the reasons given for why absolute truth cannot be dispensed with, prove them wrong, and then maybe you can get some of your credibility back.
What an incredibly stupid response. What evidence? You haven't produced any evidence.
You christian yanks are even more delusional than those chaps that fight for ISIS sometimes 
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RE: Why atheism cannot escape absolute truth
October 24, 2015 at 4:57 pm
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2015 at 4:57 pm by robvalue.)
It's funny how a hand-wave is powerful enough to stop God trying to communicate with us. He really isn't trying very hard.
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RE: Why atheism cannot escape absolute truth
November 3, 2015 at 8:15 pm
Please could you state clearly what "absolute truth" atheists are, in your view, trying to escape.
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RE: Why atheism cannot escape absolute truth
November 3, 2015 at 8:33 pm
(October 3, 2015 at 4:50 pm)Delicate Wrote: In a different thread, an atheist indicated that absolute truth is a difficult view to give up. He's right.
But it's worse than that: It's impossible to give up absolute truth.
The reason is, in any conceivable universe, operating under any given specification of natural laws, if we reject absolute truth, we reject the ability to say anything meaningful about these possible universes. The very claim "In universe1 there are no absolute truths" is either true or false, and absolutely so. Once you jettison absolute truth, your statements about this possible universe become meaningless.
But the problem goes further than that. If you simply want to reject absolute truths in our world, you demolish the foundations of reason and science, which are irreparably dependent on absolute truth.
Hitting closer to home, the claim "There are no absolute truths" held as a claim cannot be rationally affirmed or denied if it is true.
Thus, atheists cannot escape absolute truths, on any level.
Unlike some of the atheists here, I'm not gonna say that "absolute truth" does not exist. For all I know, it does. I'm not sure what exactly is meant by "absolute truth," but I think what's generally meant is "objective truth," and as long as something can be demonstrated by evidence I don't have that much problem recognizing that it is probably objectively true (at least until it is contradicted by other evidence or a more thorough explanation of current evidence).
Where I, as an atheist and a skeptic, run into problems is when somebody then goes on to say that because objective/absolute truth exists, Jesus is the absolute truth because the Bible says that he's "the way, the truth, and the life," and we can believe what the Bible says because the Bible is absolute truth. Neither of those claims can be demonstrated by evidence, so claiming that they are absolutely or objectively true is just...well...false.
Verbatim from the mouth of Jesus (retranslated from a retranslation of a copy of a copy):
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
Also, I has a website: www.RedbeardThePink.com
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RE: Why atheism cannot escape absolute truth
November 3, 2015 at 9:03 pm
Arguing if absolute truths exists reminds me of this Bertrand Russel quote,
"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way. Persecution is used in theology, not in arithmetic.”
"Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.” ~ Ambrose Bierce
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's." - Mark Twain in Eruption
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RE: Why atheism cannot escape absolute truth
November 3, 2015 at 9:08 pm
(October 3, 2015 at 4:50 pm)Delicate Wrote: Thus, atheists cannot escape absolute truths, on any level.
Because we are nothing more than a 'Brain-in-a-Vat', no one is in a position to know an absolute truth. And that is absolutely true.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Why atheism cannot escape absolute truth
November 3, 2015 at 9:27 pm
The OP clearly staked its self worth on its delusions being true, and has lost all capacity to development any interest in exploring the level of support the delusion actually has, compared to all possible alternatives.
It is nothing more than another drich, with only occasionally better grasp of grammar and diction.
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RE: Why atheism cannot escape absolute truth
November 3, 2015 at 9:35 pm
What is absolute truth?
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RE: Why atheism cannot escape absolute truth
November 3, 2015 at 9:52 pm
It seems atheism has escaped what you claim to be absolute truth.
BTW: It can't be absolute, or the truth, if it can be disproved.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: Why atheism cannot escape absolute truth
November 4, 2015 at 1:29 am
(November 3, 2015 at 9:35 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: What is absolute truth?
![[Image: 2014-08-19-336.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.threepanelsoul.com%2Fcomics%2F2014-08-19-336.png)
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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![[Image: 146748944129044_zpsomrzyn3d.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i629.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu13%2FRXM843%2F146748944129044_zpsomrzyn3d.gif)
