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RE: A few choice words id say.
October 8, 2015 at 4:59 pm
(This post was last modified: October 8, 2015 at 5:00 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(October 8, 2015 at 2:06 pm)Drich Wrote: We are slaves, as such we have been given one singular choice. (one choice fee will is not.) That choice is to either to continue to be a slave to sin, or to Serve/slave to God. Before we had no choice but to serve/Slave to sin.
Not exactly a winning pitch.
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RE: A few choice words id say.
October 8, 2015 at 5:01 pm
(October 8, 2015 at 2:06 pm)Drich Wrote: That's my point. Their isn't free will. That is a greek construct and not a biblical doctrine.
We are slaves, as such we have been given one singular choice. (one choice fee will is not.) That choice is to either to continue to be a slave to sin, or to Serve/slave to God. Before we had no choice but to serve/Slave to sin. It's your God that determined all of mankind would be slaves to a sinful nature after the original sin occurred, isn't it?
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RE: A few choice words id say.
October 8, 2015 at 5:06 pm
(October 8, 2015 at 4:26 pm)dyresand Wrote: (October 8, 2015 at 4:11 pm)Drich Wrote: So... to start your argument was God allowing evil through the epicurean paradox, when I explain you are Evil incarnate before God, now you shift your goal post to natural disaster?
So then let me ask you.. What if Death was our birth into eternity? What then would our gestation period in this life matter?
does it truly matter looking at your whole life span, if you were born after a full 9 months or maybe a week or two ahead of time? Like wise if our death happens earlier than we like does that truly change who we are in eternity?
Either he doesn't care or he cant do anything or he simply doesn't exist which one is it. Or... you could just ask me to explain what I said about epicurus paradox.
If you had you would not look like a fool going back to his vomit trying to reuse it.
If you don't understand that know Epicurus' Paradox failed. Why? Because it was not meant to speak about the God of the bible.
Epicurus' Paradox was written 300 years Before Christianity. Because Epicurus was not a Jew, he would have had absolutely no knowledge of the God of Abraham.
Therefore (Because he has no knowledge of GotB/God of the Bible) Epicurus assumes that People Are Good. Because that is what Greek Mythos teaches. (This is also your error in your failed reasoning)
The Bible points out in the (OT Psalms 14 and Romans 3 in the NT) People Are The literal Embodiment of evil. In essence People ARE Evil. Evil can not exist without us.
This means for GotB to destroy all Evil, He must Destroy ALL People (Think flood/Noah without Noah.)
Now Pay attention to this next part sport (I know It's not youtube but do your best to hang on)
So Rather than Destroy ALL People. GotB Destroyed the consenquences of Evil on the Cross.
Meaning For those who do not want to be Evil their Evil/Sins were washed away.
Do you understand what that means?
It literally means God Destroyed Evil for those who want Evil Destroyed. Anyone who wants to hang on to their evil can do so and pay for their choice themselves.
Do you understand now?
Or will you go back to natural disasters now?
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RE: A few choice words id say.
October 8, 2015 at 5:12 pm
(October 8, 2015 at 5:06 pm)Drich Wrote: (October 8, 2015 at 4:26 pm)dyresand Wrote: Either he doesn't care or he cant do anything or he simply doesn't exist which one is it. Or... you could just ask me to explain what I said about epicurus paradox.
If you had you would not look like a fool going back to his vomit trying to reuse it.
If you don't understand that know Epicurus' Paradox failed. Why? Because it was not meant to speak about the God of the bible.
Epicurus' Paradox was written 300 years Before Christianity. Because Epicurus was not a Jew, he would have had absolutely no knowledge of the God of Abraham.
Therefore (Because he has no knowledge of GotB/God of the Bible) Epicurus assumes that People Are Good. Because that is what Greek Mythos teaches. (This is also your error in your failed reasoning)
The Bible points out in the (OT Psalms 14 and Romans 3 in the NT) People Are The literal Embodiment of evil. In essence People ARE Evil. Evil can not exist without us.
This means for GotB to destroy all Evil, He must Destroy ALL People (Think flood/Noah without Noah.)
Now Pay attention to this next part sport (I know It's not youtube but do your best to hang on)
So Rather than Destroy ALL People. GotB Destroyed the consenquences of Evil on the Cross.
Meaning For those who do not want to be Evil their Evil/Sins were washed away.
Do you understand what that means?
It literally means God Destroyed Evil for those who want Evil Destroyed. Anyone who wants to hang on to their evil can do so and pay for their choice themselves.
Do you understand now?
Or will you go back to natural disasters now?
![[Image: deidara_meme_are_you_kidding_me_by_jnab-d4un0gn.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=img02.deviantart.net%2Fb1fb%2Fi%2F2012%2F091%2Fe%2Ff%2Fdeidara_meme_are_you_kidding_me_by_jnab-d4un0gn.png)
okay that's it i'm adding Dirch's user name to my browser plugin so i can't see his posts anymore.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: A few choice words id say.
October 8, 2015 at 5:15 pm
(October 8, 2015 at 5:01 pm)Thena323 Wrote: (October 8, 2015 at 2:06 pm)Drich Wrote: That's my point. Their isn't free will. That is a greek construct and not a biblical doctrine.
We are slaves, as such we have been given one singular choice. (one choice fee will is not.) That choice is to either to continue to be a slave to sin, or to Serve/slave to God. Before we had no choice but to serve/Slave to sin. It's your God that determined all of mankind would be slaves to a sinful nature after the original sin occurred, isn't it?
ah.. no.
The doctrine of 'original sin' is flawed critically.
nothing in the bible spells out this doctrine.
The 'Original Sin' did not happen between Man and God. If it was, then where did the 'serpent' come from?
The Sin that A&E Commited was to eat from the tree of the Knoweledge of Good and Evil. If anything this knowledge in of itself is not sin, it just makes one responsible for the sin they commit.
This means, you like everyone else experienced their own water shed/eat the forbidden fruit moment, once we realized what we were doing was wrong, and yet did it anyway.
That is send us to Hell, Not what someone else did.
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RE: A few choice words id say.
October 8, 2015 at 5:17 pm
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RE: A few choice words id say.
October 8, 2015 at 6:20 pm
(October 8, 2015 at 5:01 pm)Thena323 Wrote: It's your God that determined all of mankind would be slaves to a sinful nature after the original sin occurred, isn't it?
Quote:Drich
The doctrine of 'original sin' is flawed critically.
If you don't mind my asking, what translation of the do Bible you use? I only ask because I've noticed that doctrine being 'flawed' is a claim that's frequently made by many theists.
Quote:Drich
The 'Original Sin' did not happen between Man and God.
I understand this.
Quote:Drich
The Sin that A&E Commited was to eat from the tree of the Knoweledge of Good and Evil. If anything this knowledge in of itself is not sin, it just makes one responsible for the sin they commit.
I also understand, according to the Bible, that everyone is responsible for the sin they commit. That wasn't my point, though.
In my post above, I was pointing out that the Biblical God was the one that cursed mankind with a sinful nature.
I just found it odd that your God would afflict mankind by making humans predisposed to sin (through no fault of their own) and then offer a cure. Or choice, as you put it.
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RE: A few choice words id say.
October 9, 2015 at 8:59 am
(October 8, 2015 at 6:20 pm)Thena323 Wrote: If you don't mind my asking, what translation of the do Bible you use? It depends on what I am doing and to whom I am speaking. Personally I like the easy to read version, but I understand most don't so I will work with whatever translation people feel comfortable with so long as it is based of one of the three primary Codacees from which all translations are used.
Quote: I only ask because I've noticed that doctrine being 'flawed' is a claim that's frequently made by many theists.
I know you are trying to trivialize the word "claim." But in this instance the bible (from the original greek) does not ever mention the term Original sin.
Quote:Drich
The 'Original Sin' did not happen between Man and God.
Quote:I understand this.
Then we are agreed
Quote:Drich
The Sin that A&E Commited was to eat from the tree of the Knoweledge of Good and Evil. If anything this knowledge in of itself is not sin, it just makes one responsible for the sin they commit.
Quote:I also understand, according to the Bible, that everyone is responsible for the sin they commit. That wasn't my point, though.
Because we have knowledge of the evil we do.
Quote:In my post above, I was pointing out that the Biblical God was the one that cursed mankind with a sinful nature.
I just found it odd that your God would afflict mankind by making humans predisposed to sin (through no fault of their own) and then offer a cure. Or choice, as you put it.
You got the first two point right, so how did you come to this?
God gave man innocence from sin. Man elected to have the knowledge of Sin and evil. Because of this knowledge we are responsible for the sin and evil we do. God has turned us over to sin and evil if it is in our heart to live that way. However He has also provided attonement for our sin and evil if we choose not to live under the bondage of sin and evil. So in essence we can be sinful and still warrant eternal life through Christ.
The only caveat being you can not warrant eternal life, IF you love the sin you are in. You must turn from your sin and repent of it.
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RE: A few choice words id say.
October 9, 2015 at 6:13 pm
Quote:Thena wrote:
In my post above, I was pointing out that the Biblical God was the one that cursed mankind with a sinful nature.
I just found it odd that your God would afflict mankind by making humans predisposed to sin (through no fault of their own) and then offer a cure. Or choice, as you put it.
Quote:Dritch
God gave man innocence from sin.
Alright.
Quote:Dritch
Man elected to have the knowledge of Sin and evil.
Precisely when and exactly how did this take place?
Specificity would be appreciated.
*NOTE: Font change to quoted text done by me for emphasis
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RE: A few choice words id say.
October 9, 2015 at 7:58 pm
So Yahweh is basically just a slave master? That sounds pretty accurate. "Either do as I say, or I'll punish you." Not sure why he gets such good press. I guess because all of his slaves are convinced that he's benevolent because that's what they've been told.
To paraphrase Frederick Douglass "Better to die free, than to live as a slave."
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