360 Lashes in Saudi for OAP

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Meh, the guy knew it was illegal and did it anyway; if you're not willing to suffer the penalty, don't commit the crime.
Yes it may be an injustice in our estimation but it isn't our country.
If the bottle had been planted by the cops (which isn't unheard of) he might have a case beyond that this is just so much whining.

Cultral relativism belongs in the bin. How is giving a guy in his 70s 360 lashes both just and fair in any sense of those words?

What this is is exactly as min said, a double standard whereby foreigners in Saudi are convicted with overly harsh sentences for minor transgressions which are routinely committed by Saudis. Forget carrying a bottle of wine, what about countless murders and rapes committed against de facto slave labour by Saudis both home and abroad?

It's utter nonsense and needs to be confronted.

In this particular case the guy was a dummy.  He had been in Saudi Arabia for years.  His wife left to return home because she got sick.  He should have gone with her because he's well past their retirement age.  There's probably some monkey motion going on there below the surface.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

[Mr Greene]

Meh, the guy knew it was illegal and did it anyway; if you're not willing to suffer the penalty, don't commit the crime.
Yes it may be an injustice in our estimation but it isn't our country.
If the bottle had been planted by the cops (which isn't unheard of) he might have a case beyond that this is just so much whining.

Cultral relativism belongs in the bin. How is giving a guy in his 70s 360 lashes both just and fair in any sense of those words?

What this is is exactly as min said, a double standard whereby foreigners in Saudi are convicted with overly harsh sentences for minor transgressions which are routinely committed by Saudis. Forget carrying a bottle of wine, what about countless murders and rapes committed against de facto slave labour by Saudis both home and abroad?

It's utter nonsense and needs to be confronted.

The verdict seems solid. 
There is a case to commute the sentence and protest the barbarity of it (as with all forms of capital and corporal punishment) but the guy knew full well what he was risking the moment he picked up the bottle.
Trying to claim he didn't commit a crime is inane.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Cultral relativism belongs in the bin. How is giving a guy in his 70s 360 lashes both just and fair in any sense of those words?

What this is is exactly as min said, a double standard whereby foreigners in Saudi are convicted with overly harsh sentences for minor transgressions which are routinely committed by Saudis. Forget carrying a bottle of wine, what about countless murders and rapes committed against de facto slave labour by Saudis both home and abroad?

It's utter nonsense and needs to be confronted.

The verdict seems solid. 
There is a case to commute the sentence and protest the barbarity of it (as with all forms of capital and corporal punishment) but the guy knew full well what he was risking the moment he picked up the bottle.
Trying to claim he didn't commit a crime is inane.

The point was that the cultural relativism of the 'crime' is equally insane as the punishment for the crime itself (hence the argument belonging in the bin). It should not be a crime, and even if we bracket out that, the punishment is ridiculous. Saudi's ultra-conservative Wahhabi Sharia law is OTT to the extreme, and no amount of pandering to 'it's their culture' is going to convince me otherwise. The guy should not be in prison and certainly should not be facing lashes (which I believe has since been rescinded though I am not 100% sure). This further brackets out the fact that SA's interpretation and enforcement of these punishments is also hypocritical and xenophobic. Natives could be guilty of comitting the exact same 'crime' and get off without so much as a notice from the Saudi religious police. If you're anything other than a native then expect the harshest of punishments.

Nobody insinuated that it wasn't a crime in Saudi. What is being argued is that it shouldn't be a crime at all. In that respect, it is indeed not a crime.

[Aractus]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34513096

What was his crime? A rape? A murder?

No, his crime was that he was caught by religious police with a bottle of home made wine in his car.

Remember, Saudi Arabia has recently been appointed to serve on the UN Human Rights Council.

If the guy had kept his wine at his house and not put it into his car to transport it he would have been fine. Alcohol may be against the law in Saudi, but the government doesn't care what you brew so long as you don't take it outside your house.

[MTL]

I find myself saying this a lot lately: if God/Allah/Jesus/whoever has a problem with something, leave them to sort it out themselves. Every time you act on their behalf, you're contradicting your belief that they are actually real and have any power.

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've tried to point this out to Christians campaigning against gay marriage.

God doesn't need your help, guys, remember?

All you do is send the message that you don't have any faith in God's ability to deal with people by Himself.

Plus, there is something especially unsavoury about Theists
who not only feel the need to impose God's Law onto others via Civil Law,

but who claim that they do so because they're doing it for God
...when they are patently doing it for the sake of their own comfort level.

(especially Christians,
to whom Jesus never gave any instruction to make His teachings into Civil Law,
but took that upon themselves)

I imagine their God would be pretty pissed at followers doing stuff,
ostensibly in His name,
but when it's really to serve themselves.

It's akin to the moneychangers in the Temple.

Using God's name for their own interests.

(much in the way my sister claims to be on my mother's side,
but it is only to serve herself, incidentally).

[robvalue]

How stupid this guy may be is not the issue.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

How stupid this guy may be is not the issue.

Doesn't matter how many times you say that, Rob.

[Mr Greene]

The verdict seems solid. 
There is a case to commute the sentence and protest the barbarity of it (as with all forms of capital and corporal punishment) but the guy knew full well what he was risking the moment he picked up the bottle.
Trying to claim he didn't commit a crime is inane.

The point was that the cultural relativism of the 'crime' is equally insane as the punishment for the crime itself (hence the argument belonging in the bin). It should not be a crime, and even if we bracket out that, the punishment is ridiculous.
Nobody insinuated that it wasn't a crime in Saudi. What is being argued is that it shouldn't be a crime at all. In that respect, it is indeed not a crime.

It is cultural relativism to acknowledge that sovereign countries set their own laws?
Last I heard SA wasn't a protectorate, You want to promote cultural imperialism, that's your problem.

[Fidel_Castronaut]