Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?

[jenny1972]

How can Yahushua be deity if he declares his heavenly Father is greater than he himself? And what of this text?

First, I believe the forum rules require you to give a link or some form of attribution. You appear to have C&P'd from here:
http://www.itsaboutthattime.net/Revealin...essiah.htm

Second, going outside is fine for ideas, but you should present the arguments in your own words. I could just C&P a Christian page on the topic, and is that really getting us anywhere?

Anyway, Jesus can be deity despite declaring the Father as greater than himself because he voluntarily humbled himself to a lower position. I have been sticking to what Jesus said, but since in your next point you open up the epistles, that makes it easier:

Phil 2
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Messiah; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Messiah is the Almighty. (1Corinthians 11:3, "Christ" is replaced with "Messiah" and "God" is replaced with "the Almighty," where it is appropriate throughout this presentation.)

Please notice the progression of authority given in this passage: The woman is subject to the man, the man is subject to Messiah, and the Messiah is himself subject to his heavenly Father. This same point is made in 1 Corinthians 15:28, and this text even describes the Millennial reign of Messiah perfectly:

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Messiah shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Messiah the firstfruits; afterward they that are Messiah’s at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to the Almighty, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that the Almighty may be all in all. (1 Corinthians 15:21-28)

Again, see above that Jesus voluntarily humbled himself. Paul does make very clear statements of Jesus' divinity, such as:

Col 2
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily

Any more you'll have to argue yourself. I'm not going to the bother when you're just copying and pasting.

yes paul claims that jesus was divine . paul was just a man right or was he God too ? there are many earthy men teaching many different things . some men say there are many many gods should we believe these men too ? the jews never expected the coming messiah to be God which is what you wanted me to show and i did.

[John V]

yes paul claims that jesus was divine .

As did Jesus himself, so your question in the thread title is answered.

paul was just a man right or was he God too ? there are many earthy men teaching many different things . some men say there are many many gods should we believe these men too ?

No thanks, I don't have a taste for red herring served in desperation sauce.

the jews never expected the coming messiah to be God which is what you wanted me to show and i did.

Where do you think you did that?

[jenny1972]

" First, I believe the forum rules require you to give a link or some form of attribution. You appear to have C&P'd from here:
http://www.itsaboutthattime.net/Revealin...essiah.htm "

no actually i cannot post links until i have been here for at least 30 days and have made at least 30 posts . i have made over 30 posts but have been here for less than 30 days so i cannot post links yet its called the 30/30 rule

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so is God your Father (are you the son of God) or is the devil your Father (are you the son of the devil) ?

God's my father. Before you say "Aha," you should note that the Bible says we're adopted sons, while Jesus is begotten.

no doubt written by paul ....

[John V]

" First, I believe the forum rules require you to give a link or some form of attribution. You appear to have C&P'd from here:
http://www.itsaboutthattime.net/Revealin...essiah.htm "

no actually i cannot post links until i have been here for at least 30 days and have made at least 30 posts . i have made over 30 posts but have been here for less than 30 days so i cannot post links yet its called the 30/30 rule

Per the rules:

An exception to the 30/30 requirements is when external content is used within a discussion or with the intention of discussion. For example, a member who has not yet met the 30/30 requirements is allowed to post external content if they are using it as evidence in a discussion, or if it is relevant to the ongoing discussion.

[jenny1972]

Son of Man is merely another term for prophet, see Zeke.

so jesus called himself a prophet while paul called him God .... who are you going to believe ? i think jesus knew more than paul did about the issue

[John V]

@houseofcantor

If you're interested, some jews handled seemingly contradictory prophecies of the messiah by saying that the messiah's activity was contingent on the state of Israel.
http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/s...in_98.html

R. Alexandri said: R. Joshua b. Levi pointed out a contradiction. it is written, in its time [will the Messiah come], whilst it is also written, I [the Lord] will hasten it!33 — if they are worthy, I will hasten it: if not, [he will come] at the due time. R. Alexandri said: R. Joshua opposed two verses: it is written, And behold, one like the son of man came with the clouds of heaven34 whilst [elsewhere] it is written, [behold, thy king cometh unto thee … ] lowly, and riding upon an ass!35 — if they are meritorious, [he will come] with the clouds of heaven;36 if not, lowly and riding upon an ass.

[John V]

Son of Man is merely another term for prophet, see Zeke.

so jesus called himself a prophet while pall called him God .... who are you going to believe . i think jesus knew more than paul did about the issue

Jesus was indeed a prophet. How does that disqualify him from divinity?

[jenny1972]

" First, I believe the forum rules require you to give a link or some form of attribution. You appear to have C&P'd from here:
http://www.itsaboutthattime.net/Revealin...essiah.htm "

no actually i cannot post links until i have been here for at least 30 days and have made at least 30 posts . i have made over 30 posts but have been here for less than 30 days so i cannot post links yet its called the 30/30 rule

Per the rules:

An exception to the 30/30 requirements is when external content is used within a discussion or with the intention of discussion. For example, a member who has not yet met the 30/30 requirements is allowed to post external content if they are using it as evidence in a discussion, or if it is relevant to the ongoing discussion.

in any case the source you guessed at "revealing the jewish messiah" was correct so just go to the link you yourself posted .... and YOU are getting information from an outside source ( the Bible ) so why shouldnt i?

[RobbyPants]

<snip>

Because the Bible also says Jesus was God, creating a contradiction. Christians, traditionally deal with biblical contradictions in one of three ways:

• Cherry pick the version you want.
  
• Say that the parts you want to be metaphors are just metaphors.
  
• Create some weird doctrine that "satisfies" the contradiction, or at least masks it or kicks the can back a bit. See: the Trinity, dual predestination, and the Eucharist only symbolically changing from bread and wine into flesh and blood.
  

[jenny1972]

so jesus called himself a prophet while pall called him God .... who are you going to believe . i think jesus knew more than paul did about the issue

Jesus was indeed a prophet. How does that disqualify him from divinity?

how does it qualify him? the most he claimed to be was a prophet and that like other people God was his Father