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Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
(October 22, 2015 at 3:57 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: so did Jesus claim a relation to David on his fathers side or on his mothers side ?

Would it matter?  Legally he is related to David on his father's side and blood related on his mother side.  If you were related to Abraham Lincoln, do you tell people which side, or is it sufficient to say you descended from him?  

Now lets not confuse "descended from" and "related to".  One is by blood, the other is by law.  Jesus was both "descended from" (on Mary's side) and "related to" (on Joseph's side) King David.
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.
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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
(October 22, 2015 at 4:02 pm)lkingpinl Wrote:
(October 22, 2015 at 3:57 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: so did Jesus claim a relation to David on his fathers side or on his mothers side ?

Would it matter?  Legally he is related to David on his father's side and blood related on his mother side.  If you were related to Abraham Lincoln, do you tell people which side, or is it sufficient to say you descended from him?  

Now lets not confuse "descended from" and "related to".  One is by blood, the other is by law.  Jesus was both "descended from" (on Mary's side) and "related to" (on Joseph's side) King David.

what did Jesus say about His lineage to David ? , the assumption here in this thread is that Jesus said He was related to David via Mary well lets look at scripture shall we in , Jesus' own words for the answer to the question was He related to David through Mary ( maternal or paternal relation ) read Jesus words for yourself :

Matthew 1New International Version (NIV)
The Genealogy of Jesus the Messiah
1 This is the genealogya]">[a] of Jesus the Messiahb]">[b] the son of David, the son of Abraham:

2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,

Isaac the father of Jacob,

Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,

3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,

Perez the father of Hezron,

Hezron the father of Ram,

4 Ram the father of Amminadab,

Amminadab the father of Nahshon,

Nahshon the father of Salmon,

5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,

Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,

Obed the father of Jesse,

6 and Jesse the father of King David.

David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah’s wife,

7 Solomon the father of Rehoboam,

Rehoboam the father of Abijah,

Abijah the father of Asa,

8 Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,

Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,

Jehoram the father of Uzziah,

9 Uzziah the father of Jotham,

Jotham the father of Ahaz,

Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,

10 Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,

Manasseh the father of Amon,

Amon the father of Josiah,

11 and Josiah the father of Jeconiahc]">[c] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.

12 After the exile to Babylon:

Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,

Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,

13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud,

Abihud the father of Eliakim,

Eliakim the father of Azor,

14 Azor the father of Zadok,

Zadok the father of Akim,

Akim the father of Elihud,

15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,

Eleazar the father of Matthan,

Matthan the father of Jacob,

16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today   FSM Grin   Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one  - John Lennon

The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also  - Mark Twain
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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
The genealogy in Matt. 1:1 is traced through Joseph, Jesus’ legal (though not natural) father, and it establishes His claim and right to the throne of David. The genealogy in Luke 3:23-38 is evidently that of Mary, though some believe it is also Joseph’s, by assuming that Matthan (Matt 1:15) and Matthat (Luke 3:24) were the same person and Jacob (Matt 1:16) and Eli (Luke 3:23) were brothers (one being Joseph’s father and the other his uncle).

There is another argument that comes from the theme, purpose, and audience of the two gospels. Matthew was written to the Jews to prove that Jesus was in the legal line of David by adoption through Joseph. However, this was not Luke’s purpose. Luke was writing to show and emphasize the humanity of Christ. He was writing to Gentiles or Greeks to show Jesus’ involvement with the needs of men. In keeping with this focus, we might naturally expect Luke, the doctor, to present the genealogy of Jesus through Mary, the source of his true humanity.
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.
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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
(October 22, 2015 at 5:28 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: The genealogy in Matt. 1:1 is traced through Joseph, Jesus’ legal (though not natural) father, and it establishes His claim and right to the throne of David. The genealogy in Luke 3:23-38 is evidently that of Mary, though some believe it is also Joseph’s, by assuming that Matthan (Matt 1:15) and Matthat (Luke 3:24) were the same person and Jacob (Matt 1:16) and Eli (Luke 3:23) were brothers (one being Joseph’s father and the other his uncle).

There is another argument that comes from the theme, purpose, and audience of the two gospels. Matthew was written to the Jews to prove that Jesus was in the legal line of David by adoption through Joseph. However, this was not Luke’s purpose. Luke was writing to show and emphasize the humanity of Christ. He was writing to Gentiles or Greeks to show Jesus’ involvement with the needs of men. In keeping with this focus, we might naturally expect Luke, the doctor, to present the genealogy of Jesus through Mary, the source of his true humanity.

well isnt that convenient Smile guess after the Trinity and the Jesus IS God concept was invented 100+ YEARS after Jesus death they had to try and pull something together to explain how Jesus was related to David (adoption perfectly acceptable now so that everything fits together and Jesus can claim a lineage to David and be the Messiah) no real relation to David . joseph did not "begot " Jesus like Jesus claimed to everyone ( making Jesus a liar i guess !)

beget
verb (used with object), begot or (Archaic) begat; begotten or begot; begetting.
1.(especially of a male parent) to procreate or generate (offspring).
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today   FSM Grin   Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one  - John Lennon

The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also  - Mark Twain
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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
Jesus wants to have his cake and eat it, basically Tongue
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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
Kingpin! You came back! Smile

Shit, I'm missed ya, man.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost

I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.

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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
(October 22, 2015 at 8:35 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Kingpin! You came back! Smile

Shit, I'm missed ya, man.

Aww shucks you make me blush. I was only gone a few days Smile. Weekends are impossible for me.
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.
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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
(October 22, 2015 at 8:56 pm)lkingpinl Wrote:
(October 22, 2015 at 8:35 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Kingpin! You came back! Smile

Shit, I'm missed ya, man.

Aww shucks you make me blush. I was only gone a few days Smile. Weekends are impossible for me.

(Psst. No one tell him it's Thursday, okay? I think he thinks the weekend just ended.)
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost

I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.

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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
(October 22, 2015 at 5:28 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: The genealogy in Matt. 1:1 is traced through Joseph, Jesus’ legal (though not natural) father, and it establishes His claim and right to the throne of David. The genealogy in Luke 3:23-38 is evidently that of Mary, though some believe it is also Joseph’s, by assuming that Matthan (Matt 1:15) and Matthat (Luke 3:24) were the same person and Jacob (Matt 1:16) and Eli (Luke 3:23) were brothers (one being Joseph’s father and the other his uncle).

There is another argument that comes from the theme, purpose, and audience of the two gospels. Matthew was written to the Jews to prove that Jesus was in the legal line of David by adoption through Joseph. However, this was not Luke’s purpose. Luke was writing to show and emphasize the humanity of Christ. He was writing to Gentiles or Greeks to show Jesus’ involvement with the needs of men. In keeping with this focus, we might naturally expect Luke, the doctor, to present the genealogy of Jesus through Mary, the source of his true humanity.

How about the fact that they simply contadict each other? It's not like they were necessarily aware of each other's works.
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Hmmm?
(October 22, 2015 at 3:26 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: God the Father called Jesus God.

Hebrews 1: 6-8 KVJ

A reference to Psalms 45, I wonder if the writer of Hebrews read what David did?  ...it's a lot to read.

(Matthew 5:44, Luke 6:27, 6:35, 9:55-56)
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