help with a scientific study of religions

[Caecilian]

Okay...that could be anything, though. Some jesus freaks think they see his "face" on skillets, water stains, and cheese sandwiches.

Whatever happened to plain old "crazy?"

Sure, its crazy as fuck. But craziness is worth studying. Theres an underlying biochemistry to it.

Maybe one day they'll be a medication for religious fuckwittery. I live in hope.

[tackattack]

Yeah because the mentality that your choice to believe a certain way and act towards those belifs without detriment to another's freedom should be deemed a disease. Lot's of people feel the same way about homosexuality... apparently you guys have more in common with bigoted anti-gay theist zealots than you let on.

[Minimalist]

without detriment to another's freedom should be deemed a disease

What has that got to do with religion, tack?

[tackattack]

Treating somone's belief like a disease when it's not affecting your personal freedoms is the same thing that some "religious fuckwits" have done to homosexuals was my point min, sorry if it wasn't clear.

[Violet]

And indeed... my belief that pizza is delicious is formed much the same way as a belief in gods is formed. In fact... one could say the same of all beliefs. The only way to avoid doing this is to have no beliefs at all... and then what be different between you and the rocks?

People often don't know enough about their brain and chemicals to explain 'why' they believe in gods, why they like to play certain games, etc. People are not insane, crazy, or even stupid necessarily for a belief in gods.

[tackattack]

I disagree with no beliefs at all, that wouldn't help sae. How about taking the other side of the coin and say being more tolerant would be usefull. Most, if not all, decisions are based off of brain chemicals. If you treat religion or homosexuality like a disease then you have to qualify a norm. I'm not saying you shouldn't classify people as being stupid and ignorant, but the second you treat it like a disease you're saying "I know what's right and you're wrong". In a world with so much subjectivity and absent from physical abnormalities I just can't justify deciding what's right/wrong or true/false for anyone else.

[Caecilian]

I wasn't being entirely serious when I suggested a medication for religion. Even if such a thing were possible, it wouldn't necessarily be desirable. Our society seems dedicated to normalizing dissenting worldviews and lifestyles out of existence- imo this is a bad thing.

However, I don't think that the parallel is so much between religion and homosexuality as between religion and schizophrenia. Religious experience is at least very similar to schizophrenic experience, and possibly even identical. That doesn't mean that all religious people are schizophrenic, but it does imply that the tools that we use to study schizophrenia and other psychopathologies could be fruitfully applied to the study of religious experience.

[Paul the Human]

I agree. If someone is claiming to see and hear angels and/or god... they are either full of shit or a possible schizophrenic. Simply believing in god is not the same thing, but there is something causing that person to believe and I, personally, suspect there are psychological and/or bio-chemical causes for it. I'm not saying that believers are in any way 'diseased' or in need of a 'cure' (especially if that belief is hurting no one), but the point of scientific research isn't to change things... only to figure out 'why'.

[Caecilian]

While scientific research sometimes produces unpalatable results, it can also be very liberating.

Consider, for example, the research on transexuality. A number of peer-reviewed papers have demonstrated that there are significant ways in which m->f transexual people's brains are similar to female brains but not to male brains. M->f transexuals often say things like 'I'm a woman trapped in a man's body'; what the research is increasingly showing is that this is very literally true. This paves the way for ts being seen for what it is- a biological mix-up requiring surgery, rather than a psychiatric condition requiring therapy. France has recently removed ts from its list of mental illnesses; one can only hope that other nations will follow suit.

If the continuity of religious experience and schizophrenia could be demonstrated, then that would be a blow for religion, sure. And no bad thing imo. But it would also be a blow in favour of greater rights and respect for people who experience mental health problems. If a basically psychopathological condition has resulted in the Hagia Sophia, Chartres Cathedral, the Sistine Chapel and the organ works of Bach, then it would be much more difficult to dismiss or belittle people because of their bizarre beliefs and actions. Bear in mind that 'being crazy' only becomes a problem when it threatens an individual's functionality, or leads to the individual putting themselves or others at risk. I would never advocate the use of coercion on someone (e.g. for treatment) just because they were nuts.

[Minimalist]

Treating somone's belief like a disease when it's not affecting your personal freedoms

But they do, constantly, affect everyone else's personal freedoms. From knocking on my door trying to sell their stupid fucking god to influencing legislation according to their ancient superstition.

"Religion" is not harmless.