Rant about weight, fat acceptance, obesity and health

[The Grand Nudger]

Dys, the foods available in our grocery stores..by and large, are not significantly different from the food at mcdonalds.  In fact, mcdonalds chicken nuggets have a more amenable nutritional profile than the chicken nuggets my grocery store puts their in-house label on.  So, if I wanted to get my kids some nuggets (and they love em, lol) I'd be better off hauling their silly asses to the Micky D's.  Our grocery stores are essentially warehouses for unhealthy non-food....because it is more profitable, and less perishable.  The things we eat, and what things are available for us to eat, have everything to do with how much we weigh.  It's beyond absurd, to suggest otherwise.

We could go through the demons resume our post harvest production industry has built for itself, line by line, just since 2000...to see how this situation arose, if you like.  TBT, we started down this road -long- before then.   How we apportion wic and ebt, for example.  -Forcing- people on public assistance to buy unhealthy food,  might not have helped our situation.  Upholding GRAS designations and allowing a self determined portion of GRAS additives to be in food...but not directly listed...might not have helped our situation. This is a favorite of mine..did you know that a military grade nuerotoxin is Generally Recognized As Safe as a component of -baby food- advertised to promote brain health...couldn't make this shit up..could I? They don't even have to disclose the fact that it's in there...or do any tests to see what it's effect might be...and guess what, it's in -all- of the baby food..we shipped it around the world too..you're welcome.  The reason that it's in the baby food, is that we use it to cut the marquee nutrients out of their growing medium here in Kentucky. That's right, one old retrofit brewing plant in one US state managed to load the -worlds- baby food up with nuerotoxin -in a single year, with a stockpile of ten years to go..before closing up shop because there was very literally no more babyfood to put this shit into. Why did anyone put it into their baby foods in the first place..because the other guy did it, and to the consumer, that means the others guys stuff has more stuff in it. Moving on, pumping subsidies into the least healthy things we either grow or eat...might not have helped our situation.

As far as social acceptance goes, I don;t think it has much to do with socially accepting "fat people", as we have accepted, socially, the current status of our food industry...and for a great many of us, this is at least in part based upon the economics of it, so, not exactly something you accept..so much as something you deal with. People who spend an exorbitant amount of time at work...and yet mystifyingly remain impoverished already have their dietary options constrained. Grocery stores cater to the same consumer that McDonalds does, and so their product is similar or, in some cases, inferior. Didn't use to be that way, now it is. So, the situation as it stands, is that an American has X amount of dollars with which to purchase food - and y time to prepare it. The products offered to us that fit within both x and y....are, by and large, not entirely healthy. Even foods you might think of as healthy, have been altered. That nutritional value has been extracted from them as a profit stream in our processing apparatus. It is sold as another product, and buying the old "healthy product" will not buy you that...anymore. Not that we have a whole lot of choices here, mind you, we process for non-trivial reasons.

[Losty]

I don't know rhythm, they sell meat and vegetables and fruit at my grocery store. I feed my kids super healthy food. I like to go to farmers markets and butcher shops too, and I know the cost is a factor but a lot of these places even take food stamps now.


As a parent I get the opposite judgement. My kids struggle with their weight a lot, but they're always under weight. When Lelibug and Justin were little, a nurse actually harassed me to tears at the doctors office because my kids were too skinny. It was awful. Even now that they've been on appetite increasing meds and I have learned ways to add healthy extras to their diets, they're still really skinny for their age/height. I think regardless of big or small, people should try not to be so judgmental of parents if they don't know the situation.

[SteelCurtain]

Moderator Notice
Please stop stripping the User ID from the quote function. It is misleading and may lead to people misunderstanding who you are quoting.

I think you're drawing a little bit of a causal relationship between people getting fatter in America and people believing that being fat is healthy. Americans are getting fatter because there is a Burger King on every corner, we work 51 weeks a year, and we have screens in every room of our house. Believe me, I live in Tennessee. There are more morbidly overweight people here than you can possibly imagine. Yet I still hear them tell me they want to lost weight, their doctor told them they were going to lose their foot to necrosis from diabetes. Not one person has tried to convince me that they were healthy while riding a scooter in WalMart.

I think this is misleading - Saying that Americans (or for the matter any other people) are getting fatter because there's a burger king or a fast food restaurant every corner is like saying the cause of gun shootings and killing sprees is the fact guns are sold in many stores - While I live in Europe and it is mostly illegal for civilians to own guns here, I think the cause of shooting sprees is not the fact guns are legal in America because, as you probably know, killing sprees are not that uncommon in scandinavia and people still acquire guns there. I think the availability of food influences how fat people get, but I don't think you can blame more weight on it - I'm pretty sure (and correct me if I'm wrong) that despite the fact America has so much processed food and junk food, it's more than possible to find healthy or otherwise normal food for decent prices - I also don't want to assume how many Burger Kings are out there, but in Europe fast food restaurants have existed and spread their availability for a long time, but I still don't see many of my friends going to MacDonalds every single day - In fact, I have a MacDonalds right next to me and I haven't gone there in 3 months because when I go out to dinner or lunch I prefer some traditional dish (mostly meat because I don't like fish much) since it's more worth the money.

I think you stopped reading after the first item in my list. The list, as it was, was supposed to show that I don't think there's any reason to believe that the reason people are getting fatter is that some people believe that being fat is healthy. Rather there are a lot of reasons. There is an abundance of convenient, cheap, sugary, savory, pre-packaged and processed foods. Walk down any supermarket aisle in America, and you'll find "whole" meals in a box or pouch, where all you have to do is add water and heat, or add chicken breasts and fry. We are being flooded with quick meals. You can drive through a Dunkin Donuts/Baskin Robbins/Dairy Queen combo drive through and get a burger, and Caramel Coolata, and an ice cream with jelly beans and sprinkles and chocolate syrup in literally the same stop. Combine this with the ridiculous amount of sedentary time we allow ourselves (TV, video games, AtheistForums.org ) and the fact that poor Americans work longer hours with less pay and less vacation than ever before---you have a self tightening screw.

Yes--it is possible to get healthy food. It is much easier---and cheaper---to get unhealthy food. And this effects poor people more. When you work two jobs, and it is quicker, easier, and cheaper to feed your family by ordering a pizza and a 2L pop than making chicken breasts, broccoli, and white rice---overwhelmingly you are going to choose the former.

Also, I seriously doubt that factors are anything more than social since 50 years ago people were much thinner - I mean, my country itself is much fatter now, but when people were poor and couldn't eat much everybody was very thin, and I believe America before the 2000's was thin as well, so I don't think there's a genetic reason behind the increase in obesity. It's basic reasoning here.

First of all, America has a LONG history of being obese. We weren't thin as a nation anytime near the 2000's.

Again, the food choices have changed. 50 years ago, packaged, processed, sugar-intensive foods were luxuries rather than staples. You can actually thank the US military for that. Powdered cheese for your Mac-n-Cheese? Thanks US Army. Retort pouches for your Capri Sun and Campbells skillet meals? Thanks US Army. The list goes on and on. Processed foods are ubiquitous in the American supermarket. They are much cheaper and quicker and easier than roasting a chicken and preparing vegetables and a salad. And---they taste great, a lot of times better than a prepared meal.

This disproportionately affects poor people.

Your first post included something about going for traditional food. You have to remember, America's traditional foods are BBQ, Hamburgers, sundry items deep fried in fat, and anything slathered in butter. We glorify savory, spicy, sweet, and filling. Our medium soda at McDonalds is nearly a Litre. Seriously---it's 32 oz. A litre is 33.8 oz. A medium. The Large is 44 oz. Of syrupy, sweet, oh-so-good pop. It is possible to get a 96 oz Super Big Gulp at the corner convenience store. for like $1.99. We drink an entire healthy meal in calories as liquid lubricant for sliding 20 processed chicken nuggets down our gullets which are also slathered in buttermilk ranch sauce (more lube).

Obesity is a food choice problem, an education problem, an immediate gratification problem, and an American reliance on convenience problem. It is also a problem that is made more difficult by being poor. You have to actively choose to spend more money to get healthier food, to spend more time you don't have preparing it, to convince your mewling spawn that even though it doesn't taste as good, it'll be better for you, and to give a shit about this all in the now---because weight gain complications happen later.

[The Grand Nudger]

How much of the meat, by weight, is additive and GRAS (and what are those additives).  Guess what, you don't know..because they don't have to tell you.  So, when you see a sticker that says "up to 20% broth", for example..on the average store bought skinless boneless breast...there's yet another undeclared portion of that chicken breast which is most definitely not made of chicken.  

Basically, you're being sold plumped food.  Meat balloons, if you will.  

As regards the veggies.  Two inconvnient issues crop up.  Firstly, the amount of veggies your store sells is miniscule.  It;s miniscule both to their profits and their square footage.  They use that aisle to get you in the door.  They want you to see that.  They want you to walk in and feel that "veggie aisle feeling"....and then traipse around the store buying everything else.  Which is what we, as americans, do.  The veggies themselves are less nutritionally dense than they were just a few years back...and this is intentional, and not entirely avoidable.  

I'm not telling anyone that there's -nothing- healthy to eat, anywhere...but you can find healthy food at McDonalds too.  I;m simply suggesting that the majority of whats available is not healthy, and that economic and social constraints steer us and cause people -to- steer us towards the unhealthy shit, time and time again.  Doesn't help, ofc, that our biology is fucking with us.  That unhealthy shit is often absurdly delicious.

I like to go to farmers markets and butcher shops too, and I know the cost is a factor but a lot of these places even take food stamps now.

This, right here, I love this. States are starting to roll out programs like this, it's a positive change. They're fighting against a tide of prior bad policy decisions, however. Course, if food stamps have to go to higher priced niche products in order to get healthy food, or in order to increase the ratio of healthy-to-unhealthy products.....is this not another example of precisely the problem I'm shining a light on? I'm not condemning your dietary choices, or claiming that you make poor ones, or that it's impossible for you to do so, I'm simply expressing that you are not given the opportunity as often as you could be, or would like to be. Cornbread outta fatten your beanpoles right up, btw.

[Losty]

I can't speak for anyone else, but sometimes the quote function on my mobile doesn't work. If that is case, for anyone who doesn't know, you can still quote a specific person like this [quote=milk chocolate] (or whoever you're quoting) and then just use normal /quote tag at the end.

[Losty]

I honestly don't know a lot about this. The meat I buy isn't usually prepackaged. And the guy just writes the name and weight and date on it with a marker after he wraps it the plastic over it. Am I naively fooling myself into believing that the family owned butcher shop I like to frequent is healthier? I honestly don't know.

I get what you mean though. Unhealthy is always cheaper and more convenient and more available. It's also more popular and I struggle with that because I don't want my kids to be those weird kids who've never had pizza roles or koolaid. But I also don't want to give my kids pizza rolls or koolaid. The koolaid thing is something I will not bend on. I sometimes let my kids have unhealthy junk to eat though I try to avoid it as much as possible. But they have never had koolaid. The only pop they've had was Sprite (and that's just the older two as Miss P wasn't born yet) and I glared at my mother the entire time they were drinking it. My kids drink a lot of water and I have a juicer and a blender so they get watered down fruit juice and smoothies sometimes. I'm not crazy honestly. I blame the pediatrician office. They have posters of babies with rotted out teeth. It's traumatizing.

[The Grand Nudger]

I honestly don't know a lot about this. The meat I buy isn't usually prepackaged. And the guy just writes the name and weight and date on it with a marker after he wraps it the plastic over it. Am I naively fooling myself into believing that the family owned butcher shop I like to frequent is healthier? I honestly don't know.

I get what you mean though. Unhealthy is always cheaper and more convenient and more available. It's also more popular and I struggle with that because I don't want my kids to be those weird kids who've never had pizza roles or koolaid. But I also don't want to give my kids pizza rolls or koolaid. The koolaid thing is something I will not bend on. I sometimes let my kids have unhealthy junk to eat though I try to avoid it as much as possible. But they have never had koolaid. The only pop they've had was Sprite (and that's just the older two as Miss P wasn't born yet) and I glared at my mother the entire time they were drinking it. My kids drink a lot of water and I have a juicer and a blender so they get watered down fruit juice and smoothies sometimes. I'm not crazy honestly. I blame the pediatrician office. They have posters of babies with rotted out teeth. It's traumatizing.

Going to a family owned butcher won't ensure that you get a better product, but it's likely that you can (with caveats...they still get their product from the same production apparatus).  Trouble is, we don't get our meat from butchers...and frankly, we can't.  Butchers went out of business because we the people couldn't afford them.  The solution to our problems cannot be a failed business model. I have a favorite butcher as well..the meat is good, the rest of the shit he has is the same shit the kroger has - there's just no getting around it, that's where the money's at. I have a special circumstance though. I live in the bluegrass. We have horses and cattle out the wazzoo..so for me, going to the butcher, is having my neighbor drop off the cow I bought when it's rdy to rock. This isn;t something that the majority of us can do, or would be willing to do.

*you just reminded me...I need to call his ass about a big fuckin turkey.

[SteelCurtain]

I honestly don't know a lot about this. The meat I buy isn't usually prepackaged. And the guy just writes the name and weight and date on it with a marker after he wraps it the plastic over it. Am I naively fooling myself into believing that the family owned butcher shop I like to frequent is healthier? I honestly don't know.

The only thing to do is ask. Who is his supplier? Is the meat ranched locally? Does he buy from Sysco or US Foods? (If so it's probably shit). But I'd be willing to bet that the local butcher gives you quality meat. You are in the Mid-West, after all.

The only pop they've had was Sprite (and that's just the older two as Miss P wasn't born yet) and I glared at my mother the entire time they were drinking it. My kids drink a lot of water and I have a juicer and a blender so they get watered down fruit juice and smoothies sometimes. I'm not crazy honestly. I blame the pediatrician office. They have posters of babies with rotted out teeth. It's traumatizing.

I love soda because it was available to me as a kid. There were no rules--my dad loves Cokes, so there was always a 2L on the counter for us to drink from. I ride my bike to the 7/11 and get a 1L of Surge and get white-kid wasted (Milk Chocolate style, of course) any time I had the $1.28 it cost to do so. I am confident that if my parents taught me healthy habits with that kid-crack, I wouldn't be so in love with it today. So kudos to you, Losty-chan.

[Losty]

The farm life is absolutely not the life for me. I grew up in it. I hated it as a kid. But the food was good. I wish I could just have a farmer as my next door neighbor and then buy all my food from them. Now gardening, I can do (and enjoy). So fruits and veggies can be a thing xD


Also, about the corn bread, the thing is my kids don't want to eat, at all. They don't like anything. They don't even like cake or ice cream. Leli likes green beans. She will actually become physically ill if forced to eat something she doesn't like. The medicine helps. Making sure their super active also helps the appetite increase but it doesn't help for weight gain. They drink pediasure and praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster in all his noodle glory that they like it because that's what has really made a difference. My 7 year old is in a size 5T now, when she was 4 she could still fit into 12 month summer clothes (not pants because they were too short).

[The Grand Nudger]

I've got two beanpoles myself.  My youngest daughter and my youngest son.  They're the mini-me's.  Basically garbage disposals with legs...and yet.  Meanwhile, the eldest girl and eldest boy, my wifes mini-hers, picky picky eaters...both built like brick shithouses. Get them all to eat the same thing is difficult, and keeping the skinny ones forks off the thick ones plates is damned near impossible. I think they have worms....