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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 31, 2015 at 9:49 pm
(This post was last modified: October 31, 2015 at 9:52 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You don't? So...intelligent design, demonstrated to be true? Kindly demonstrate this for us. God, demonstrated to be true? Kindly demonstrate this for us.
You -do- believe in things which haven't been demonstrated to be true, and that's okay. What isn't, is misrepresenting yourself, and your positions, wouldn't you agree?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 31, 2015 at 9:51 pm
(October 31, 2015 at 8:32 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: well im not confused about evolution i believe all that i just believe that God is responsible for evolution and there is an intelligent design behind it all and people are disagreeing with that concept and other certain OCD inclined people i wont name names are just taking issue with my debating style and method and failure to comply with their standards and dont even care about the topic so going back and forth with that silliness also
Well deism + evolution is hardly a biggie. As long as you grasp the basics of evolution and you're not forcing any religion on others.
I think it seemed to some like you didn't grasp the basics such as natural selection.
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 31, 2015 at 9:57 pm
(This post was last modified: October 31, 2015 at 9:57 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Theism + intelligent design. Not deism + evolution, actually.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 31, 2015 at 9:57 pm
(October 31, 2015 at 9:48 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: ohh i was wondering what that word woo meant i kept seeing that word i dont believe in tarot cards or astrology or religion only God thats it although some homeopathic remedies are effective so if they work i believe in them . im open minded to things but i dont believe in something unless it is demonstrated to work or be true
http://skepdic.com/woowoo.html
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 31, 2015 at 10:01 pm
(This post was last modified: October 31, 2015 at 10:02 pm by jenny1972.)
(October 31, 2015 at 9:26 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (October 31, 2015 at 8:32 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: well im not confused about evolution i believe all that i just believe that God is responsible for evolution and there is an intelligent design behind it all and people are disagreeing with that concept and other certain OCD inclined people i wont name names are just taking issue with my debating style and method and failure to comply with their standards and dont even care about the topic so going back and forth with that silliness also
Obviously you are..because you don't believe in evolution, you believe in intelligent design. Debating style...lol? No, you've failed to provide a valid inference, and you've failed to provide any evidence. The standard is called reason, the system is logic, and words have meanings..thus evidence must be evident, logic must be valid, and reason must be sound.
Is there any of this, for the umpteenth time, that you don't understand? If you're unclear, for example, about the meanings of words, or the system of logic, or how to form a rational claim - I...will...help.....you. I may not agree, in the end, with what I help you to arrive at, but at least you won't continue to shame yourself, and shame your beliefs.
thank you for your heartfelt concern im sure its veryyy genuine and your really concerned about my ability to debate my possible embarassment and concerned about how my beliefs are going to be perceived by others ... thank you ! im much more inclined to think however that you enjoy being in control and just want things a certain way conforming to a certain standard and just cant get past it , maybe you should meditate or something to try and get your mind off this non conformity of mine i know it bothers you very much . if i want advice about systems techniques and structure i will google it i have a feeling if i ask you ill never hear the end of it and i dont want to trigger some manic phase . so thanks for the offer but ill decline that i think 
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today  Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 31, 2015 at 10:04 pm
(This post was last modified: October 31, 2015 at 10:11 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I'm not concerned about your embarrassment, or how your beliefs are perceived by others. I assume that your beliefs are important -to you. I assume that your pride is important -to you.
Look, Jen. I have no fucking clue what you're rambling on about. I'm honored that you would think, even for a moment, that I'm the author of reason, that I create and control the rules of inference. I don't. It seemed, since you refer constantly to your reason, and evidence......that those standards where important- to you.
Good idea..there at the end. Google it. Try to avoid "godbotherer.com" when you go looking for lessons in reason or logic, though. Down that road lay only tears and misery. I was being sarcastic, btw, about your non-conformity. You conform completely to the mold of every ID apologist we've ever had on these boards. Seems like that's something you'd probably like to work on, while you're googling.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 31, 2015 at 10:20 pm
(October 31, 2015 at 9:49 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You don't? So...intelligent design, demonstrated to be true? Kindly demonstrate this for us. God, demonstrated to be true? Kindly demonstrate this for us.
You -do- believe in things which haven't been demonstrated to be true, and that's okay. What isn't, is misrepresenting yourself, and your positions, wouldn't you agree?
yes human beings who have intelligence have demonstrated that they can produce complex organized things and bring things together and form systems , and a rock has not demonstrated this ability . and yes God has demonstrated to be true and i havent misrepresented myself or my positions im being very honest despite your personal annoyance with my nonconformity to your structure
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 31, 2015 at 10:24 pm
(October 31, 2015 at 9:57 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Theism + intelligent design. Not deism + evolution, actually.
Hmmm... she's told me she's a deist who doesn't follow any religion and believes God just started the process of evolution and then natural selection did the rest.
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 31, 2015 at 10:31 pm
(October 31, 2015 at 10:24 pm)Evie Wrote: (October 31, 2015 at 9:57 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Theism + intelligent design. Not deism + evolution, actually.
Hmmm... she's told me she's a deist who doesn't follow any religion and believes God just started the process of evolution and then natural selection did the rest.
And yet says things like, "A rock has not yet demonstrated this ability"?
That's not even close to what evolution/abiogenesis claims about the origin of life (well, technically, some of the better hypotheses right now point to the crystalline structure on the surface of certain types of rocks allowing for the chemicals to come together into the structure of the first replicator, but I'm pretty sure that's not what she means), nor about how life evolved.
You cannot be a Deist and believe in Intelligent Design. ID means "fingers meddling with the formula while it bakes". It means that God did not set the laws of the universe and then let it run (the Deist position), but instead got the initial creation wrong, and had to come down to earth to stir the primordial soup somehow, so that it would do what it wouldn't do naturally. That is not Deism.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 31, 2015 at 10:37 pm
(This post was last modified: October 31, 2015 at 10:39 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
Hmmm I thought evolution and abiogenesis were very different things. Regardless of how life begins, the fact is life evolves.
So you're saying her God is an interventionist God? Oh right, well if that's the case, it's not deism.
Although actually, I thought deism doesn't necessarily mean non-interventionist but actually just means the God she believes in his not a God of any religion. She's not a Christian, a Catholic, a Mormon, a Jew, a Hindu, a Muslim, etc, but she does believe in a God or gods of some kind. I thought that was what deism was about.... theist minus the religion? do
Or does deism also necessitate full non-interventionism?
I do think I asked her that actually but, I guess maybe she didn't catch it...
@ Jenny: Is your God an interventionist God? Does he intervene? Does he play with evolution? To what extent do you think he has to alter it with "intelligent design"
The point is with evolution through natural selection intelligent design is not required or necessary.... like I said natural selection is the driving force Jenny. A designer is not required, right?
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