OK, so as a recent de-convert, my moral view's are still adjusting, my original stance was that LGBT is "wrong", (really anything sexual that's not a married man/woman was "wrong", including masturbation). Abortion was tantamount to murder. Lying/murder/cheating, of course these were unacceptable actions. Now that i know there's no actual sin, I'm already seeing a change in some of these views, and I'm actually viewing some other things as being "wrong" that I had always questioned previously, but most christians don't believe to be wrong. I'd like to share this list and get some additional viewpoints.
First, however, I feel that some sort of explanation is in order for why I believe the way i do (morally) since I don't base my views on what an "omnipotent creator" want's any longer. Now that I don't have that, I base my moral's on what is necessary to ensure the continuation of my species beyond my death, and whether I will have a positive or negative impact on the future of my species.
1.Abortion - I've made an about face on this, I've believed this was wrong and equal to murder (i don't think we can say when consciousness occurs yet?) However, with recent advances we can tell if the baby will have genetic defects and other factors. The so called "designer baby's", if done responsibility, could be a benefit for our species (when you look over the course of many generations). We may wind up eventually breeding out undesirable traits for our species with this. Not including the research that's being done with stem cells (I'm not suggesting that we "grow" fetuses to harvest stem-cells or anything like that, which might "demean" our humanity, but i don't think it's wise for use to ignore the potential benefits of performing these researches. However, it would be naive not to realize that there are people who WOULD do these things, and if we want to prevent it from occurring, to preserve our human dignity, it would need to be tightly regulated (as i believe it is today?). Also, full disclosure, about 15 years ago my girlfriend and I decided to get an abortion ourselves because we felt we were unprepared to care for a baby (I was also quite frightened about what would happen if my ultra religious family would find out).
2.LGBT - I'm not sure how this got tied all up in atheism, I do still kinda find it (gross?) when I think about it, I don't know many LGBT people, those I do know I've felt a mutual respect as human beings, but I don't think there's a place in a religious society for this of course. But also, in an advanced civilization, I don't believe there's a place either (at least not at this time), and here's why. LGBT actions aren't consistent with procreation (which is necessary for the continuation of my species.) I am willing to admit & realize that my views may come from a place of ignorance and I'm interested in a re-alignment. As I've understood it gay people are born that way? (I believe this also applies to LBT?) and please forgive me of this, but really any other sexual preferences other than the ones associated with procreation? (bestiality/pedophilia/I believe there are others however uncommon) are also born this way? (i'm NOT trying to insult lgbt, but as a rational person i don't see how i can't draw similarity's). If this is true, then for example, if i were to be married some day in the future and we decided to procreate and we had 5 fetuses to choose from and 2 had the traits that were not hetero, I don't believe we would choose either of those two fetuses. Specifically for the continuation of our species.
3. I think it's incredibly easy to give a case for not murdering. If I understand correctly, serial murderers today have different brains than the rest of us do, and over the millennia, our ancestors would have routed these people out as we do today because they don't want to be killed themselves, so their gene's don't get passed. This doesn't only apply to serial killers, our ancestors would likely have also routed out opportunistic murderers for the same reasons (although i don't believe they murder as a genetic condition) As a whole, society "governs" itself, which provides a check/balance not only for murderer's, but a wide range of things like lying/cheating/adultery, I think the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" isn't something we've been programmed with but rather a natural law.
4.(this is a little bit of a slide on the topic of this post, please don't get whiplash, but it's semi related) I also don't understand how christianity/republicans/the right got all intertwined with Guns (REALLY GUNS?) guns are there to kill shit?? seems like that's something that would be a value held by someone who's non-religious, rather than a christian view. It doesn't make sense to me, and it never did. Climate change??? same story? According to the bible aren't we supposed to be "good stewards"? Why do the religious seem intent on denying climate change?
I find myself arriving upon a couple of dilemma's when contemplating these things. If you read my introduction post you'd know I'm bi-polar. I wonder if I have an obligation NOT to procreate because of my mental illness, even if that means adopting to at least protect some of the next generation from the oppressive religious views. Although I do believe I have other traits that are worthwhile, and beneficial to our species. I've recently re-watched Idiocracy, and while it's a really funny movie, I think it's actually a plausible scenario I'd like to help prevent from occurring lol. In that case, do i have an obligation TO procreate?
Finally, in watching some you tube video's from atheists recently, I've heard the argument "I don't mind if you practice your religion, so long as it doesn't interfere with others", but inevitably that's followed with describing people strapping explosives to their chests (obviously referencing muslims or something similar), or stoning someone for one reason or another (again, a non-christian belief) or denying some rights to LGBT (which, if the audience has a similar view as i once/still kinda do have regarding LGBT, this analogy will fly right over their heads). However, if instead we gave an example that these christians can relate to, I believe it would be much more effective in getting our point across (rome wasn't built in a day). For example, religion gives a belief in an afterlife, demeaning the life we are currently in, people have killed themselves thinking they will rise again in the afterlife when that's not true. Religion seems to promote guns, mismanagement of our planet, indoctrinating children, televangelists. If we could find common ground I think our points would be much more effective.
Anyways, it's super crazy late, I've got so much i still want to ask/say, I'm sure I've pissed some people off with this post, but that's not my intent. For now I'll say goodnight, but I'm very interested in your thoughts/views on this. Please reply
First, however, I feel that some sort of explanation is in order for why I believe the way i do (morally) since I don't base my views on what an "omnipotent creator" want's any longer. Now that I don't have that, I base my moral's on what is necessary to ensure the continuation of my species beyond my death, and whether I will have a positive or negative impact on the future of my species.
1.Abortion - I've made an about face on this, I've believed this was wrong and equal to murder (i don't think we can say when consciousness occurs yet?) However, with recent advances we can tell if the baby will have genetic defects and other factors. The so called "designer baby's", if done responsibility, could be a benefit for our species (when you look over the course of many generations). We may wind up eventually breeding out undesirable traits for our species with this. Not including the research that's being done with stem cells (I'm not suggesting that we "grow" fetuses to harvest stem-cells or anything like that, which might "demean" our humanity, but i don't think it's wise for use to ignore the potential benefits of performing these researches. However, it would be naive not to realize that there are people who WOULD do these things, and if we want to prevent it from occurring, to preserve our human dignity, it would need to be tightly regulated (as i believe it is today?). Also, full disclosure, about 15 years ago my girlfriend and I decided to get an abortion ourselves because we felt we were unprepared to care for a baby (I was also quite frightened about what would happen if my ultra religious family would find out).
2.LGBT - I'm not sure how this got tied all up in atheism, I do still kinda find it (gross?) when I think about it, I don't know many LGBT people, those I do know I've felt a mutual respect as human beings, but I don't think there's a place in a religious society for this of course. But also, in an advanced civilization, I don't believe there's a place either (at least not at this time), and here's why. LGBT actions aren't consistent with procreation (which is necessary for the continuation of my species.) I am willing to admit & realize that my views may come from a place of ignorance and I'm interested in a re-alignment. As I've understood it gay people are born that way? (I believe this also applies to LBT?) and please forgive me of this, but really any other sexual preferences other than the ones associated with procreation? (bestiality/pedophilia/I believe there are others however uncommon) are also born this way? (i'm NOT trying to insult lgbt, but as a rational person i don't see how i can't draw similarity's). If this is true, then for example, if i were to be married some day in the future and we decided to procreate and we had 5 fetuses to choose from and 2 had the traits that were not hetero, I don't believe we would choose either of those two fetuses. Specifically for the continuation of our species.
3. I think it's incredibly easy to give a case for not murdering. If I understand correctly, serial murderers today have different brains than the rest of us do, and over the millennia, our ancestors would have routed these people out as we do today because they don't want to be killed themselves, so their gene's don't get passed. This doesn't only apply to serial killers, our ancestors would likely have also routed out opportunistic murderers for the same reasons (although i don't believe they murder as a genetic condition) As a whole, society "governs" itself, which provides a check/balance not only for murderer's, but a wide range of things like lying/cheating/adultery, I think the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" isn't something we've been programmed with but rather a natural law.
4.(this is a little bit of a slide on the topic of this post, please don't get whiplash, but it's semi related) I also don't understand how christianity/republicans/the right got all intertwined with Guns (REALLY GUNS?) guns are there to kill shit?? seems like that's something that would be a value held by someone who's non-religious, rather than a christian view. It doesn't make sense to me, and it never did. Climate change??? same story? According to the bible aren't we supposed to be "good stewards"? Why do the religious seem intent on denying climate change?
I find myself arriving upon a couple of dilemma's when contemplating these things. If you read my introduction post you'd know I'm bi-polar. I wonder if I have an obligation NOT to procreate because of my mental illness, even if that means adopting to at least protect some of the next generation from the oppressive religious views. Although I do believe I have other traits that are worthwhile, and beneficial to our species. I've recently re-watched Idiocracy, and while it's a really funny movie, I think it's actually a plausible scenario I'd like to help prevent from occurring lol. In that case, do i have an obligation TO procreate?
Finally, in watching some you tube video's from atheists recently, I've heard the argument "I don't mind if you practice your religion, so long as it doesn't interfere with others", but inevitably that's followed with describing people strapping explosives to their chests (obviously referencing muslims or something similar), or stoning someone for one reason or another (again, a non-christian belief) or denying some rights to LGBT (which, if the audience has a similar view as i once/still kinda do have regarding LGBT, this analogy will fly right over their heads). However, if instead we gave an example that these christians can relate to, I believe it would be much more effective in getting our point across (rome wasn't built in a day). For example, religion gives a belief in an afterlife, demeaning the life we are currently in, people have killed themselves thinking they will rise again in the afterlife when that's not true. Religion seems to promote guns, mismanagement of our planet, indoctrinating children, televangelists. If we could find common ground I think our points would be much more effective.
Anyways, it's super crazy late, I've got so much i still want to ask/say, I'm sure I've pissed some people off with this post, but that's not my intent. For now I'll say goodnight, but I'm very interested in your thoughts/views on this. Please reply
