Refuting misconceptions:2-jihad not terrorism

[mo3taz3nbar]

1-Is islam religion of peace?

I prefer to say that islam is religion of peace in time of peace and religion of war in the time of war we don’t have the concept that if someone slap you in the cheak give him the other but allah says in his holly Quran:
We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.(Quran 5:45)
If some someone slaps you in the face you have the right to slap him back but if you forgive him its better for yourself

2-Jihad :

-jihad doesn’t mean holly war we don’t have anything called holly war it means struggling which have different meanings(extruglling in oneself which means fighting the bad deeds you want to do and do the good deeds)
-Another meaning is fighting to establish justice and defend yourself

3-When do muslims are allowed to fight?

1-defending ourselves:

-"And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits " (Quran 2:190)
-“And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you”(Quran 2:194)
The first reason for fighting is when someone attack us
There are a set of rules in war even when we are defending ourselves which I will explain later

2-opression and injustice:

Fighting those who make oppression to apply justice is actually a duty of all humanity and we are ordered to remove oppression and injustice (even if they are a Muslim country)

-"And what is wrong with you that you fight not in the Cause of Allah, and for those weak, ill-treated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help."(Quran 4:75)
“Fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God".(Quran 2:193)
But:
"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that hears and knows (all things)."(Quran 8:61)
There is no exception in this text or in the context ones the enemy incline towards peace you have to accept it and we cant fight anymore even when defending ourselves
Also:
"If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge."(Quran 9:6)

Rules of combat:

Even if a muslim is fighting for his rights or to establish justice there is limitations:
-not allowed to kill innocent people (only those who are fighting no civilians)
-not allowed to kill or harm a woman or a child or the elders
-not allowed to destroy infrastracture, destroy crops or kill an animal
-Prisoners of war:you cant injure them,you must give them fair treatment and you must provide them with food,water and shelter(if you don’t have any they are free and you are not allowed to keep them as prisoners)
1400 years before geneva

4-are muslims violent?

-"And the slave of the Most-Beneficent (Allah) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness. And those who spend the night before their Lord, prostrate and standing. And those who say Our Lord! Avert from us the torment of Hell. Verily it's torment is ever an inseparable, permanent punishment. Evil indeed it (Hell) is as an abode and a place of dwell. And those who when they spend, are neither extravagant nor niggardly, but hold a medium (way) between those (extremes). "(Quran 25:63-67)

-"Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them. For Allah loves those who are just. Allah only forbids you with regard to those who fight you for your faith, and drive you out of your homes and support others in driving you out, from turning to them for protection (or taking them as Wali). Those who seek their protection they are indeed wrong- doers."(Quran 60:8-9)

-“Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.”(16:125)
I think no explanation needed

5-Being fair and justice to everyone wether muslim or non muslim:

"O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah as witnesses to fair dealings and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just, that is next to piety. Fear Allah, indeed Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do."(Quran 5:8)

6-What extremist and people who attacks islam do and how they mislead people:

This is actually the verse that is used by most people to prove that islam orders terrorism and killing non muslims:
"And kill them wherever ye catch them.." (Quran 2:191) this verse is talking about non believers. by ignoring the context and also the historical context that’s what you get: muslims are allowed to fight and kill non muslims for no reason(bombing and terrorism justified also)

But if you read the context :

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear (the punishment of) God, and know that God is with those who restrain themselves."(Quran 2:190-194)

Historical context:This verses was revealed when the pagans of mecca(mecca is the place that muhammed(pbuh) and his companion use to live and the pagans get them out and take all their houses and everything) attacked the muslims and slaughtered them in the mosque of mecca and the muslims was at war with them
Clearly that doesn’t say anything more than fight those who fight you(defending yourself) and not giving the permission for killing non muslims

But in contrary the Quran says:

“Take not life, which God hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom."(Quran 6:151)

“if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.”(Quran 5:32)

this verses didn’t say a muslim or non muslims this applies to any human being

this is an example of what they are doing there is a lot of other examples but they are following the same idea and I think I made my idea as I was trying to make it short as I can.
waiting for your questions

[Darwinian]

this verses didn’t say a muslim or non muslims this applies to any human being

Why should my life be dictated to by an ancient book, written by arabs over 1600 years ago in which I have no interest or belief?

[mo3taz3nbar]

Why should my life be dictated to by an ancient book, written by arabs over 1600 years ago in which I have no interest or belief?

not the subject plz if i answered you there will be other members asking questions also not on the subject and we will all get confused plz have a little patience and after am finished i will get in details of every question you have but for now you can see the thread of why i believe in islam
http://atheistforums.org/thread-3784.html
and also read this thread(jihad not terrorism) and ask me if you have anything that you want me to clarify

[mo3taz3nbar]

i think i made my point very clear that no one is asking questions i thought that this thread will never end as most of you guys had a great misconception about islam and violence in general anyway am still waiting if anyone had a question regarding this issue. and if its clear plz help in my next thread by telling me any misconceptions you have about islam

[Thor]

Rules of combat:

Even if a muslim is fighting for his rights or to establish justice there is limitations:
-not allowed to kill innocent people (only those who are fighting no civilians)

Then why do Muslim terrorists SPECIFICALLY TARGET civilians?

-not allowed to kill or harm a woman or a child or the elders

Again, Muslim terrorists SPECIFICALLY TARGET these people. Why would they violate their own holy book?

-not allowed to destroy infrastracture, destroy crops or kill an animal

Then why do Muslim terrorists SPECIFICALLY target trains, planes, oil pipelines, electric transmission lines, important buildings, etc...?

-Prisoners of war:you cant injure them,you must give them fair treatment and you must provide them with food,water and shelter(if you don’t have any they are free and you are not allowed to keep them as prisoners)

This is absolutely laughable! When jihadists capture one of our soldiers they have tortured and killed him EVERY TIME! Why is this?

1400 years before geneva

What difference does this make? Muslim jihadists completely ignore any rules of war.

[mo3taz3nbar]

@ Thor thats my point those are not doing what islam says or what the Quran says and i also gave example for what they do and how they justify what they are doing i hope that i made that clear from the Quran

[paintpooper]

I shit on any Quran or Bible. That is how much we care about this. Don't preach, don't try to make excuses. Humans kill in the name of "god" all the time, it's wrong. Muslims have limited resources so they use car bombs and other less expensive tactics, the Christian Fundies use F-22 Raptors, B-52 Bombers and Predator drones.

[Thor]

@ Thor thats my point those are not doing what islam says or what the Quran says and i also gave example for what they do and how they justify what they are doing i hope that i made that clear from the Quran

But they believe they are following the Koran! And if they ARE NOT following the Koran, why do people in Muslim countries rejoice when terrorists slaughter innocents? I recall seeing Muslims dancing in the streets after the attacks of 9/11. What I DON'T recall is any Muslims denouncing the attacks. Why is that?

You're starting to sound like you're using the "No true Scotsman" argument.

[Paul the Human]

Indeed. So the Qur'an doesn't specifically sanction such activities. Muslims are still committing them in the name of Allah and justifying them with the Qur'an. That is not a misconception. It is the truth. Apparently, you do not think these terrorist/jihadis are right... so why don't you put your efforts toward denouncing them, rather than trying to convince us that your religion is not responsible?

[Thor]

Apparently, you do not think these terrorist/jihadis are right... so why don't you put your efforts toward denouncing them, rather than trying to convince us that your religion is not responsible?

My point exactly! Muslims want us to believe that jihadists who commit atrocities in the name of Islam are "misguided" or some such thing. If that's the case, why don't Muslims stand up and denounce terrorist attacks? Because I've never seen it happen.