Refuting misconceptions:2-jihad not terrorism

[mo3taz3nbar]

And I'd venture to say that in many Middle Eastern countries, rising up, or even speaking out, would be a death sentence, since the extremist sect is actually the government.

lol no its not that bad there is just few countries like that and thanks god am not living in one of them

[AtheistPhil]

Here's an interesting report on the question of terrorism among muslims in 2009.

Egypt: 8% approval of attacks on civilians in US (and 2% with mixed feelings)
Indonesia: 5% (8%)
Pakistan: 9% (15%)
Morrocco: 7% (8%)
Palestinian territories: 24% (15%)
Jordan: 11% (12%)
Turkey: 8% (10%)
Azerbaidjan: 4% (10%)

(95% confidence intervals of +/- 3 percentage points )

at least speak out against them so you don't feel the need to clear your holy book's name to a bunch of internet atheists.

i will not try to deny that muslims are not doing what they are supposed to do but some of them start doing a little by making programs and campaigns to increase the knowledge about islam but its not organised well so it ends up to be individual efforts(as yusuf estas) but i hope this will increase in the next few years.there is a campaign started from few months and they are willing to reach every country its called the fog is lifting wich aims to tell the people the truth about islam and to clarify what is our position as muslims againest terrorism and a lot of other things

This really amazes me: Those terrorists are trashing Islam on an international level and still no campaign on national levels is made. This show that the rejection of terrorism is not clear, as the statistics above show. My explanation: moderate muslims have a hard time rejecting their extremist fellow brothers, because they are still their brothers, in the same way we are much slower to condemn a friend or family for a bad action than to condemn a stranger for the same action. There is a human double standard: US marines killing muslim civilians in Irak outrages the muslim community, but when some muslim extremists do the same thing on non-muslim civilians the Ummah has mixed feelings about its condemnation.

[mo3taz3nbar]

This really amazes me: Those terrorists are trashing Islam on an international level and still no campaign on national levels is made. This show that the rejection of terrorism is not clear, as the statistics above show. My explanation

thats because they are not unified and most of the rulers dont give a shit to what is happening wether in islamic or non islamic countries except if there is something will affect their place as president or the ruler

moderate muslims have a hard time rejecting their extremist fellow brothers, because they are still their brothers, in the same way we are much slower to condemn a friend or family for a bad action than to condemn a stranger for the same action.

we are not that racist man lol these terrorists are killing muslims as much as they are killing non muslims even in 9/11 a lot of muslims died

There is a human double standard: US marines killing muslim civilians in Irak outrages the muslim community, but when some muslim extremists do the same thing on non-muslim civilians the Ummah has mixed feelings about its condemnation.

what is happening in iraq and in palestine is much more than 9/11 and the outrages you are talking about has nothing to do with religion in egypt there is a lot of people who defend iraq and palestine are non muslims. about the mixed feeling some people have it because the hate towards some countries also not to other religions when i was young i used to hate americans because they are killing palestinians but when i grew up i start understanding that the americans have nothing to do with that its the government but i really never met anyone who agree for any of the terrorist acts wether in muslim or non muslim country

[AtheistPhil]

moderate muslims have a hard time rejecting their extremist fellow brothers, because they are still their brothers, in the same way we are much slower to condemn a friend or family for a bad action than to condemn a stranger for the same action.

we are not that racist man lol these terrorists are killing muslims as much as they are killing non muslims even in 9/11 a lot of muslims died

I'm not talking about race, but about people one considers close to oneself. The togetherness in Islam highlighted by the Ummah is such that there are feelings which refrain you from condemning thoroughly other muslims for bad actions for which you would immediately condemn the perpetrator if he were a non-muslim. This is my explanation for the absence of real condemnation on an national level of terrorism. You don't want to judge quickly other muslims, even though they are clearly misguided. That's why there is also no condemnation for the "cultural" (as you said) laws in certain muslim countries which disrespect the Qur'an's teachings.

If I understood you, only the shahada is needed to be a muslim and join the "family" of the Ummah. It means that unislamic actions can be made by large numbers of muslims without being easily condemnable by the righteous muslims because it goes down to understanding the clear and right interpretations (if they ever exist...) of the Qur'an which are not easy to understand sometimes. And moreover the feelings of togetherness refrain the righteous muslims from condemning those muslims, because the Ummah must look united at all cost !
That's why your "real" Islam is extremely hard to enforce in all muslim countries.

There is a human double standard: US marines killing muslim civilians in Irak outrages the muslim community, but when some muslim extremists do the same thing on non-muslim civilians the Ummah has mixed feelings about its condemnation.

what is happening in iraq and in palestine is much more than 9/11 and the outrages you are talking about has nothing to do with religion in egypt there is a lot of people who defend iraq and palestine are non muslims. about the mixed feeling some people have it because the hate towards some countries also not to other religions when i was young i used to hate americans because they are killing palestinians but when i grew up i start understanding that the americans have nothing to do with that its the government but i really never met anyone who agree for any of the terrorist acts wether in muslim or non muslim country

I know, I was just giving you an example, regardless of the context, where muslims denounce some strangers' action and don't denounce the same actions made by muslims

[mo3taz3nbar]

I'm not talking about race, but about people one considers close to oneself. The togetherness in Islam highlighted by the Ummah is such that there are feelings which refrain you from condemning thoroughly other muslims for bad actions for which you would immediately condemn the perpetrator if he were a non-muslim.

i never thought about that but you are right.maybe the reason is that if anyone condemned the acts of binladen he will have serious trouble(maybe i really dont know the reason for that)but you know we dont have someone to talk in the name of the muslims its always different countries and political issues i think if there was a powerful rightous muslim president maybe it would be different

This is my explanation for the absence of real condemnation on an national level of terrorism. You don't want to judge quickly other muslims, even though they are clearly misguided. That's why there is also no condemnation for the "cultural" (as you said) laws in certain muslim countries which disrespect the Qur'an's teachings.

when someone doesnt ask for his rights you will never ask for them as when there is a culture issues disrespecting Quran teaching in a muslim country like opressing women they dont even talk and most of them are used to that and its something really bad i hope i can do something about it

[quote]If I understood you, only the shahada is needed to be a muslim and join the "family" of the Ummah. It means that unislamic actions can be made by large numbers of muslims without being easily condemnable by the righteous muslims because it goes down to understanding the clear and right interpretations (if they ever exist...) of the Qur'an which are not easy to understand sometimes.

the Quran is really not that hard to interpret if i have an arabic dictionary and understanding of in what situation this verses was revealed anyone can interpret it the important thing is to read the context

And moreover the feelings of togetherness refrain the righteous muslims from condemning those muslims, because the Ummah must look united at all cost !
That's why your "real" Islam is extremely hard to enforce in all muslim countries.

i feel so happy when you use the word ummah.but thats not the case they forgot about Islam and they are different now and not united because of political issues

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plz guys am preparing for my next thread and i hope to know what you want to know about Islam and also to tell me about some good books regarding atheism to read

[fr0d0]

i think if there was a powerful rightous muslim president maybe it would be different

A president concerns themselves with politics and running a country. This has nothing to do with religion.

What would be good would be an accepted representative body of Islam declaring immorality wrong. But like I said above, Islam promotes immorality as you outlined in this thread.

Another weakness is like with the Catholic church, Muslims consider themselves such by birth as much as anything else. It makes for a more inclusive membership, with accompanying mass; but also a membership ignorant of the actual meaning of the religion. Hence in reality the struggle of people seeking justice leading to terrorism latching onto an easy cause which buys you political power - Islam.

[Autumnlicious]

Dear mo3tanz3nbar:

I despise everything your religion claims to stand for. More so than I could ever despise Christianity or any other religion, as at least one of those is founded on grace, whereas your religion is founded upon oppression and fear. Hell, your religion means "submission" - submission to Allah, Muhammad and whatever Imam's cock you suck.

There are no misconceptions about Islam here - except for the few deluded members who actually think there may be a way to civilize that savage religion.

Of course, had Christianity not had the reformation, we might have something similar with honor killings, beating women, throwing acid, going nuts over a little piece of paper, etc,.

Fuck Islam. Fuck it's oppressiveness and fuck it's apologists. You guys deserve to live in the 15th century with those attitudes.

I'd be happy to leave y'all be, but you people have a habit of trying to drag the rest of us into your anachronistic death cult.

[downbeatplumb]

I'd be happy to leave y'all be, but you people have a habit of trying to drag the rest of us into your anachronistic death cult.

And once in you can never leave, on pain of DEATH.

MWAHAHA.

[mo3taz3nbar]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/10262402.stm
99% in turkey are muslims they prisoned about 14 person as they suspect them to belong to al qaeda

[Minimalist]

Dear mo3tanz3nbar:

I despise everything your religion claims to stand for. More so than I could ever despise Christianity or any other religion, as at least one of those is founded on grace, whereas your religion is founded upon oppression and fear. Hell, your religion means "submission" - submission to Allah, Muhammad and whatever Imam's cock you suck.

There are no misconceptions about Islam here - except for the few deluded members who actually think there may be a way to civilize that savage religion.

Of course, had Christianity not had the reformation, we might have something similar with honor killings, beating women, throwing acid, going nuts over a little piece of paper, etc,.

Fuck Islam. Fuck it's oppressiveness and fuck it's apologists. You guys deserve to live in the 15th century with those attitudes.

I'd be happy to leave y'all be, but you people have a habit of trying to drag the rest of us into your anachronistic death cult.

I find myself in agreement with Pat Condell and you, Syn.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0Novt3X4