How humans are "slaves", and how that leads to the existence of God.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

*indulgent chuckle* Asserting the premise as the proposition never proves it.

Boru

[WinterHold]

Redbeard The Pink

You need to give me an example of an action that escapes the two possibilities (being given to ourselves or to somebody else).
Then about God, the concept in Islam that he wasn't the product of an action, how is something I don't know.

Irrational

It's hard for me to believe that these laws came by themselves.
There is no smoke without fire.

robvalue

We do it for ourselves; the worship I mean, he's a creator and we're creations.
For us to live and win we must follow his commands, for us to lose is to refuse them.

[Reforged]

When analyzing the journey of humanity through life, we can find it's no more than a set of actions, done to produce a desired output; the existence of a human itself is a conclusion of an action : that is birth.

Humanity always serves, even the smallest of actions cannot escape the domain of the action being a type of service; the only dynamic part in the equation is the side which the service if offered for, ranging from ourselves to include others, anything a human do can be immediately identified as a service.

Being dependent creatures, humanity can never escape the fact that they are served. By studying the environment, every reason that keeps humans alive is actually a service given to them; either it's a case of atheism or theism, we can say "earth supports human life" or say "God is blessing humanity to survive".
Despite the person's belief, humanity is being served, and our actions are all services.

The revolution in this concept, is an entity that doesn't get served. If a certain entity exists, it never gets served, then we face a crack in the concept  we define humans with : (a human always serves & get served); but that entity would be an entity that (always serves and never gets served).

From that point; the concept of God originates. Either believed in, or not, we can't define humans with another concept than the above : humans are dependent on services given by other entity.

You're using poetic language to describe humans as beings inside the natural order that follow a chain of cause and consequence.
You're then describing the possibility of an entity outside the natural order and the chain of cause and consequence, correct me if I'm wrong.
Wheres the revelation?

[abaris]

As usual, with something trying to argue for servitude to religion, it strongly reminds me of something happening in the morning. Comes in different shades of brown and emits a strong aroma before being flushed.

[Rhondazvous]

Well, let’s look at the things that were made to serve humanity.
1. The sun ~ it gives us warmth and for some of us it allows our bodies to synthesize beneficial vitamins. It gives us light. It burns us and renders parts of the Earth too hot for habitation.
2. Other animals ~ they provide us with food and muscle strength for tasks which we are not strong enough to perform. Their skins provide us with clothing and their waste with fertilizer. In fact every living thing on this planet lives at the expense of other living things. If you live on this planet, you are both predator and prey, parasite and host.
3. The Earth ~ she provides everything that we need, food, shelter, water, air, clothing, beauty. She cleanses and repairs herself with lightening, earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, tornadoes, hurricanes, mudslides and wildfires. There’s not a place on this planet where there is not something with the potential to take your life.

Religious people look at the natural disasters and say that is god punishing America for her wickedness. If that’s so then his aim is a little off, for it’s mostly poor and powerless people who are being struck while the PTB on this planet are mostly unaffected.

One may come up with highly abstract, philosophical arguments for the existence of god, but the realities of this world speak for themselves.

[robvalue]

We do it for ourselves; the worship I mean, he's a creator and we're creations.
For us to live and win we must follow his commands, for us to lose is to refuse them.

Live and win? What does that mean?

I don't care what his commands are, and I don't worship anything. Why should I? Shouldn't I use the brain he gave me?

[Rhondazvous]

Another day, another theist without evidence making shit up in order to define his special pet creature into existence.

Another one bites the dust.

[GrandizerII]

Irrational

It's hard for me to believe that these laws came by themselves.
There is no smoke without fire.

That's your problem, but reality does not have to conform to what you think makes sense anyway.

So no smoke without fire. Fair enough, but that applies to fire only.

[Rhondazvous]

You're using poetic language to describe humans as beings inside the natural order that follow a chain of cause and consequence.
You're then describing the possibility of an entity outside the natural order and the chain of cause and consequence, correct me if I'm wrong.
Wheres the revelation?

We've heard this kinda shit before so it's more revolving than revealing.

[Redbeard The Pink]

Redbeard The Pink

You need to give me an example of an action that escapes the two possibilities (being given to ourselves or to somebody else).
Then about God, the concept in Islam that he wasn't the product of an action, how is something I don't know.

No, I really don't. It looks like you're shifting to the cosmological argument here (all things require a cause, so there must be an original cause that requires no cause), which is easy enough to refute without playing your little game.


If Gaud wasn't the "product of an action," then things do not have to be the products of actions in order to exist, and therefore Gaud is not required to make things exist.


If things have to be the product of an action in order to exist, then Gaud must be the product of an action and raises the question of which and whose action he is a product of.


If Gaud is the only thing that does not have to be the product of an action, then that is special pleading.