Christianity must Implode

[ignoramus]

Who cares what it says?

What relevance is a goat herders' manual from c. 300 BC to us in the 21st century?

I use the 1896 Benz model 710 steam powered car repair manual regularly to reprogramme the ecu on my mitsubishi.

[Huggy Bear]

1. Which of the following is the most compelling evidence for the existence of an intelligent and loving Designer?

a. A Caribbean sunset
b. The screams of a baby seal as it is torn apart by a shark
c. The first time your perfect new baby smiles at you
d. The speed of the Ebola virus converting an African child's organs into liquid


2. A deeply devout Catholic couple has just returned from their fiftieth anniversary celebration, when suddenly the husband falls to the ground, clutching his chest. What is the most productive action for the wife to take?

a. Call 911
b. Put him in the car and race to the hospital herself
c. Administer CPR
d. Fall on her knees and pray to the Lord to spare his life


3. You are a product tester and frequently bring your work home. Yesterday, while dressed in a flame resistant suit (up to 3,000 degrees) and carrying the latest model fire extinguisher, you discover your neighbor's house is on fire. As the flames quickly spread, you stand and watch your neighbor's new baby burn to death. Which of the following best describes your behavior?

a. All-powerful
b. All-knowing
c. All-loving
d. Mysterious


4. One day while jogging in the park, you see a maniac with a butcher knife about to attack a six-year old girl. Which would be the most morally proper action to take?

a. Grab the nearest rock and beat off the attacker
b. Call the police on your cell phone
c. Yell "POLICE!" and run toward the attacker in a threatening manner
d. Calmly walk away, because God works in mysterious ways, and what appears "evil" to our finite human mind, may in fact be part of a vaster plan in God's infinite mind, so it's best not to interfere


5. You are the incarnated Son of the all-powerful and all-loving Creator of the universe. What would be a good way to demonstrate your compassion and power?

a. Cure cancer forever
b. Cause all the earth's deserts to bloom with food crops
c. Unite the world with a common language and an end to poverty
d. Kill a fig tree, conjure up a jug of wine and follow it up by walking on water


6. Since we can never "know" whether or not a God exists - it is fundamentally a matter of "faith" - it's best to be a believer since you have nothing to lose, but everything to lose if your disbelief is incorrect. Keeping in mind that the fate of your soul depends on the right choice, in which God should you place your belief? For extra credit, include a brief essay justifying your choice, along with the reasons why you reject the other three.

a. Zeus
b. Quetzalcoatl
c. Vishnu
d. The Holy Trinity*

(*Note: Choice D assumes you were born around 400 A.D. or later, after the invention of the Trinity)


7. You are the Creator of the universe. Your chosen people are a tribe of nomadic herdsmen, presently in bondage on one of the millions of your planets. Their ruler is being quite obstinate. Keeping in mind that you possess not only infinite power but also infinite love, your best course of action would be to:

a. Cause the ruler to drop dead of a heart attack
b. Cause the ruler to fall off a cliff
c. Visit the ruler in a dream and persuade him to let your people go
d. Slaughter a great number of innocent babies who had nothing to do with the ruler's policies


8. You are a Starfleet Federation explorer in the process of cataloging two newly discovered planets. The majority of the inhabitants of each planet believe in a deity, but they are two different deities. Deity "X" is said to be not only all-powerful, all-loving, and all-knowing, but the designer of a marvelously complex and ordered world. Deity "Y" is said to be indifferent, absent, unconcerned with the affairs of his planet, and some even say evil. Which god rules over which planet?

Planet A: Has apparently achieved a state of advanced benign equilibrium in which there are no viruses or diseases, and only a very small number of natural disasters, which, when they do strike, always eliminate only the sinful and evil. The inhabitants, both plant and animal, have learned to maintain their existence through photosynthesis, and thus do not have to kill and eat each other in order to survive. There are no "birth defects;" every inhabitant comes into existence perfectly formed and equipped for a long and productive life.
Deity X_____
Deity Y_____

Planet B: Adorned with many examples of beauty and order, it is also constantly beset by hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, volcanoes, lightning bolts, viruses, disfiguring diseases, parasites, leeches, flies, crop-destroying pests and many other phenomena which afflict both the innocent and the evil. Every life form on the planet can only sustain its existence through the destruction and consumption of other life forms. Some of the inhabitants are born with a crippling condition called a "birth defect", which condemns them to living extremely limited, short, or painful lives.
Deity X_____
Deity Y_____


9. What is the number of children born without arms or legs that have been miraculously restored by a visit to the shrine at Lourdes, France?

a. Too many to count
b. Over 1,000
c. Several dozen
d. Zero, but only because their faith was not strong enough


10. As we all know, there is only one true religion. What is the one true religion in each of the following circumstances?

a. You are born in Karnak in 3000 B.C.
b. You are born in Bombay in 300 B.C.
c. You are born in Baghdad in 900 A.D.
d. You are born in Mexico City in 1956 A.D.


11. Although you are new at golf, you have just hit a beautiful 200-yard drive and your ball has landed on a blade of grass near the cup at Hole 3. The green contains ten million blades of grass. The odds of your ball landing on that blade of grass are 10,000,000 to one against, too improbable to have happened by mere chance. What is the explanation?

a. The wind guided it
b. Your muscles guided it
c. There is no need for an explanation
d. You consciously designed your shot to land on that particular blade


12. Which of the following is most likely to be true, and why?

a. Romulus was the son of God, born to a mortal human virgin
b. Dionysus turned water into wine
c. Apollonius of Tyana raised a girl from the dead
d. Jesus Christ was the son of God, born to a mortal virgin, turned water into wine, and raised a man from the dead


13. Conceding that torture is permissible under certain conditions, which of the following would be the best justification?

a. Your prisoner is the only one who knows the date and time of an assassination attempt on the Pope
b. Your prisoner is the only one who knows where a nuclear device has been planted in Washington, D.C.
c. Your prisoner is the only one who knows where a vial of nerve gas has been placed in the London water supply system
d. Your prisoner has announced that the earth revolves around the sun


14. We know that Christianity is true because the Gospel writers, inspired by God who can make no error, recorded the founding events. For example, on the first Easter morning, the visitors to the tomb were greeted by which of the following:

a. A young man (Mark 16:5)
b. No, no, it was no man, it was an angel (Matthew 28:2-5)
c. You're both wrong, it was two men (Luke 24:4)
d. Damn it, there was nobody there (John 20:1-2)


15. According to inerrant Scripture, the Savior prayed alone in the garden while the three disciples who accompanied him had fallen asleep. How did the gospel writer know the words of that prayer?

a. Jesus left them written down under a rock
b. They were recorded on a primitive taping device
c. The gospel writer was psychic
d. The three disciples were later hypnotized and asked to recall the prayer


16. According to at least one sainted church father, one of the pleasures of the saved will be to behold the agony of the damned. What would be the best time of day in heaven for a mother to behold the agony of her only son?

a. Early in the morning before it gets too crowded
b. Mid-day when she can compare notes and share the celebration with other mothers
c. Late at night when she can enjoy the flames in starker contrast


17. In the Judeo-Christian tradition, we always look to the Bible as a guide. In this example, your teenage son has returned home from the prom intoxicated. The Bible's instruction is:

a. Sit him down for a heart to heart talk
b. Enroll him in AA
c. Take away his driving privilege for one month
d. Smash his head in with rocks


18. In this example, your son-in-law, returned from his honeymoon, has just told you he suspects your daughter was not a virgin on their wedding night. Wishing to abide by God's holy rules as laid out in the Bible, you should:

a. Ask him if he was a virgin before you do anything
b. Advise him to forgive her
c. Talk to your daughter
d. Go find those rocks


19. You are eating lunch at a crowded fast food restaurant, occupied mostly by children, when suddenly a gunman bursts in, screams "Do not question or test me," and sprays the room with bullets. Ten people are killed instantly, many more grievously wounded, but somehow you escape unharmed. His ammunition expended, the gunman collapses to the floor. What should you do?

a. Call the police and wait for them to arrive
b. Call the police and leave
c. Risk death by asking the gunman why he did it, even though he told you not to
d. Fall on your knees and give thanks and praise to the gunman for sparing your life


20. Why did God show his backside to Moses, as described in Holy Scripture, Ex.33:23?

a. He invented everything, and this was simply the first mooning
b. He was really ticked off when Moses dropped the tablets
c. He was piqued, having just discovered His almighty powers were useless against chariots of iron (Judges 1:19)
d. Moses was too serious and needed to lighten up a little


21. Jesus was God, and God knows all things, including all the medical knowledge that will ever be known. Why did Jesus blame demons for the case of epilepsy he cured?

a. He was suffering from a temporary case of "brain freeze"
b. The Aramaic word for "demon" is the same as the word for "cranial malfunction"
c. Neurology was not his specialty
d. In first-century Palestine, demons really did cause epilepsy. This affliction only began to be caused by anomalous electrochemical brain activity after about 1850 A.D.


22. This morning's paper carries a story about a suburban father who became so enraged with his disobedient children that he carried them both to the backyard pool where he drowned them, along with their puppy, their kitten, and their hamster. How should this father be treated?

a. He should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law
b. He should be banished from the town
c. He should be lynched to save the taxpayers' money
d. The townspeople should gather together to sing hymns of praise to him


23. This morning I started my day by insulting my mother in public, then punched out my father, my brother, and my sister. Then I gathered up all my clothes, sold them to a second-hand store, and with the proceeds bought a used Uzi and 50 rounds of ammunition. Next, I went down to the animal shelter and injected all the dogs with a drug that caused them to go insane and dive into the nearby canal where they all drowned. By this time I was hungry, so I went over to my neighbor's apple orchard and burned it down, because I wanted an orange and there weren't any. On the way home, I stopped at the local steel mill to discuss my philosophy of life with some of the guys. They laughed at me and said to stow it, so I tossed them all into the blast furnace. That night I discovered my son looking at a copy of Playboy. Concerned for his future welfare, I cut off his right hand. What historical character did my activities today most resemble?

a. Genghis Khan
b. Charles Manson
c. Adolph Hitler
d. Jesus Christ


24. Down through the ages, who has been most responsible for the medical discoveries that have relieved untold amounts of suffering and pain, and extended the length of that most sacred of creations, human life?

a. Medical doctors
b. Research biologists
c. Chemists
d. The Catholic Church


25. A great sadness has come into your life which you feel you cannot bear. A friend informs you of a free counseling service which has never failed to aid and comfort many others. You call the counselor; the phone rings and rings with no answer; you finally hang up. What is the most likely explanation?

a. The counselor is sitting by the phone but not answering in order to test your faith in him
b. The counselor always stands ready to hear your pleas for help, but sometimes the answer is "no"
c. The counselor will not answer because he wants you to profit by the spiritual strength that only comes through suffering
d. The counselor is not home



ESSAY QUESTION

While it is true that there have been and still are many different gods and many different religions, they are really just the various names by which various cultures approach the same God. Explain how and why each of the following is the same God:

Quetzalcoatl, who wants you to skin a young virgin alive, then put on the skin and dance;
Shiva, who wants you to pray over his penis;
Allah, who wants you to fly airliners into buildings;
Catholic God; who speaks directly through the Pope;
Baptist God, who most definitely does not;
Jesus, who wants you to castrate yourself to ensure arrival in heaven
Jehovah, who any day now, is going to kill everyone on the earth except for his Witnesses

https://www.samharris.org/forum/viewthread/4891/

Ahh, the copy and paste without giving any credit or link... we'll see how an exception is made in this case though.

[robvalue]

Lek: Here's the problem. The bible says you should kill two men who have sex. So unless you advocate executing them, you are not following the bible.

I doubt you follow hardly any of the bible. Which is a very good thing. It's horrific.

This is also in the Old Testament, which you so often say doesn't need to be followed anymore. Which is it?

[Vincent]

so gay marriage wasnt addressed at all only heterosexual marriage was addressed in the bible . you interpret that to mean God is against gay marriage thats the problem with interpretation it always supports a persons predjudice because the wording is vague enough to be interpreted any way the interpreter wants .

No, because it is outright in condemning sexual acts between people of the same sex, and I assume that's what homosexual marriage entails.  I need no prejudice to interpret the bible in that regard.  It's clear to me that if you follow the teachings of the bible you will not think that homosexual marriage is OK.  I can understand someone believing it is OK, but not because they follow the bible.

I've met plenty of Christians who support gay marriage.
The thing with Bible interpretation is that people who read it will find some way - any way - to adjust it so that it fits into their own sense of morality. One's beliefs are not determined by the Bible; the Bible is determined by one's beliefs.

[Mr Greene]

No point in doing anything much really.
The religion has a quarter-life equal to the difference between the average age of the church-goers and the average life expectancy.
ie; If life expectancy is 85 and the average age of church-goers is 65 in 20 years the size of congregation will have fallen by 25% and the difference halved to 10 years.
Following this pattern the average churchgoer in the UK will have reached life expectancy around 2030, at which point the difference is zero and the church will cease to exist in any meaningful sense.

The great atheist utopia is just around the corner in the UK!

No that much longer for the US either. Average age of the congregation there is 53 meaning it should equal life expectancy around 2075.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

The Bible isn't a good source for marriage advice. The best marriage in the entire Bible is the crazy old coot Abraham and his sister Sarah. He screwed the pubic hairs off of her for her entire life. God loved the pervert.

[Lek]

Lek: Here's the problem. The bible says you should kill two men who have sex. So unless you advocate executing them, you are not following the bible.

I doubt you follow hardly any of the bible. Which is a very good thing. It's horrific.

This is also in the Old Testament, which you so often say doesn't need to be followed anymore. Which is it?

The old testament law was given to the Israelites and was meant was for them until the coming of Jesus who freed us from the law. Christians were never under the old testament law. It had its purpose for the Israelites, but is no longer in effect for anyone. So, in other words, the Israelites of the old testament were required to follow those instructions which, I believe, were put in place to keep them separate from the rest of the world. Give me a specific instance of how I don't follow the bible and I'll respond. Also, if you can find a verse that tells us to hate homosexuals, show me that too.

[Vincent]

@Lek - you guys don't think gay marriage should be legal, but you're perfectly accepting of the legality of divorce, which Jesus preached more against than any homosexual relationships. Christian hypocrisy 101. Why protest one, and not the other? Oh, that's right. Because divorce might come in handy for you guys down the line. 

Let's take a moment to think about what would happen if your Lord and Savior returned today. Your sexual orientation is not something you can just reverse. If you're attracted to the same gender, you're attracted to the same gender. It's not the devil in them, it's not demonic sinful forces, it's just the way their brains are wired. Jesus would be a smart enough bloke to figure that out. So if he knows that gays will be bumming each other and whatnot either way, don't you think he would much rather prefer it to at least be within a sanctified marriage?

[robvalue]

Lek: Here's the problem. The bible says you should kill two men who have sex. So unless you advocate executing them, you are not following the bible.

I doubt you follow hardly any of the bible. Which is a very good thing. It's horrific.

This is also in the Old Testament, which you so often say doesn't need to be followed anymore. Which is it?

The old testament law was given to the Israelites and was meant was for them until the coming of Jesus who freed us from the law.  Christians were never under the old testament law.  It had its purpose for the Israelites, but is no longer in effect for anyone.  So, in other words, the Israelites of the old testament were required to follow those instructions which, I believe, were put in place to keep them separate from the rest of the world.  Give me a specific instance of how I don't follow the bible and I'll respond.  Also, if you can find a verse that tells us to hate homosexuals, show me that too.

I appreciate the answer but I can't understand your mode of thought at all I'm afraid. I'll have to give up. I hope you wouldn't actually want to block secular same sex marriages for non-Christians. If you would, I am shocked that you think one particular religion should get to dictate how the government handles things.

[Lek]

The old testament law was given to the Israelites and was meant was for them until the coming of Jesus who freed us from the law.  Christians were never under the old testament law.  It had its purpose for the Israelites, but is no longer in effect for anyone.  So, in other words, the Israelites of the old testament were required to follow those instructions which, I believe, were put in place to keep them separate from the rest of the world.  Give me a specific instance of how I don't follow the bible and I'll respond.  Also, if you can find a verse that tells us to hate homosexuals, show me that too.

I appreciate the answer but I can't understand your mode of thought at all I'm afraid. I'll have to give up. I hope you wouldn't actually want to block secular same sex marriages for non-Christians. If you would, I am shocked that you think one particular religion should get to dictate how the government handles things.

I do not think that one particular religion should dictate how the government handles things.

I've stated this more than once in this forum. I am not opposed to civil unions in the public sector that provide the same rights and privileges under the law as heterosexual marriage does. I consider marriage a sacred institution, which has deep meaning to me, and I resent government being allowed to change the definition of marriage, as it has been defined since the establishment of this nation. It's as if the government declares that Christmas is now going to be the celebration of Secularist Day, but we're still going to call it Christmas. In that case, they have redefined Christmas. I don't mind someone celebrating Secularist Day, but don't say that is now what Christmas means.

I think that homosexual relations are immoral. I also think that heterosexual relations outside of marriage are immoral. I think that divorce for convenience is immoral. I think that drunkenness is immoral. I don't hate people who do these things, but I am not in favor of them doing them. It really frustrates me that people cannot grasp what I am trying to convey. Should people hate me because they believe that some of my moral stances are actually immoral? I don't think they should. They are entitled to oppose my actions and beliefs, but they shouldn't hate me and I shouldn't hate them.