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Disturbing/discouraging video about Islam.
#11
RE: Disturbing/discouraging video about Islam.
(November 18, 2015 at 5:22 pm)Napoléon Wrote:
(November 18, 2015 at 5:14 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Younger generations are becoming less and less religious, I can't seem to find any friend who even goes to church regularly, but that is not the case with Muslims - I wonder if it has to do with immigration, or with some of them having proper Islamic schools even in countries like England?

From an English point of view, it appears to me to be down to their sense of identity. I get the real vibe that a lot of young muslims identify as "muslim first". By that I mean, they consider themselves muslim before they consider themselves English. Might seem a strange thing to say seen as one is a religion and the other a nationality (the stupidity of it is not lost on me), but the reality is that a lot of muslims in my experience have this kind of mindset. Or at the very least seem to.

Whenever I see groups of young muslim lads they seem very close knit. Even when they don't seem to know each other they still shake hands when greeting. I've seen shitloads of young muslims acting all pally with each other and saying "what up cuz?" and all this other shite. The one guy I went to uni with would speak to me every day, I'd greet him EVERY DAY. I thought we got on quite well. But he never ever shook my hand when we met, he never ever showed the same enthusiasm when he saw me. But he saw another random muslim guy in the hallway that he only knew by acquaintance and acted as though they were best buds.

People who don't often see this kind of thing will probably think it pointless nonsense that doesn't mean anything. But to me it's blatantly obvious that shit goes on behind closed doors and muslim families IMHO absolutely must be propounding and reinforcing a sentiment of "us and them", especially with the younger generations.
I think this is the same with black people in Portugal - I have a black cousin I don't talk to much, he's actually mixed race but identifies as African - He told me without any sense of political correctness that black people consider one another to be "cousins" everytime, and treat themselves as such - So if you're black, and you see another black, you can go shake his hand and say something like "hey brother, good to meet you" - I get it that people want someone with close cultural proximity and all, but if I did that with my friends who happen to be mostly white I'd be labelled a racist. I think Muslims might be a similar case, but probably more serious. I've met blacks in uni and seen many black having fun with whites and other races, which is good, but I dunno if that's the case for Muslims.

One thing I find disturbing is how Muslim families have this idea of keeping the religion alive - I know 2 people who married Muslim women, and both of them had to convert to marry - Of course both didn't really believe, they just pretended to convert to fit in, but either you convert or you can't marry them - A friend of my GF married a Muslim and she had to convert, otherwise she couldn't marry him, and had to do some really weird rituals, and now needs permission from her family to go out, etc - It's the small things that in excess bother people. I tend to distrust groups of people who don't want to marry outside of religion, let alone people who need permission to marry.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

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#12
RE: Disturbing/discouraging video about Islam.
(November 18, 2015 at 6:12 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(November 18, 2015 at 5:43 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: Well yeah, exactly. But dogmatic religion isn't like that. If a religion is dogmatic, it is right or it is wrong. There is no room for change. If you are open to change, you must admit the foundation of your religion is not infallible. If that's the case, why the dogma? Why not embrace something more flexible like Secular Humanism which acknowledges the changing, advancing state of knowledge and enlightenment?

That is very true about dogmatic teachings not changing. 

"Death Penalty = moral" was never a dogmatic Catholic teaching, but a practice of the time... though an awful and embarrassing one. But you are correct. Church dogmas don't change, and neither will they ever. A couple examples of these are the belief that Jesus is God, and the belief that Mary got pregnant with Jesus through the Holy Spirit. We believe them to be absolute truths, and truths don't change.

Well, that's a problem, CL. What is "absolute truth" has a pretty high bar. One plus one equals two is hard to exclude from that but Mary got pregnant with Jesus through the Holy Spirit is a far stretch to say the least. What do you have to justify that claim? How is that claim any different from the Muslim claims you find so abhorrent?
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

Albert Einstein
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#13
RE: Disturbing/discouraging video about Islam.
(November 18, 2015 at 6:24 pm)AFTT47 Wrote:
(November 18, 2015 at 6:12 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: That is very true about dogmatic teachings not changing. 

"Death Penalty = moral" was never a dogmatic Catholic teaching, but a practice of the time... though an awful and embarrassing one. But you are correct. Church dogmas don't change, and neither will they ever. A couple examples of these are the belief that Jesus is God, and the belief that Mary got pregnant with Jesus through the Holy Spirit. We believe them to be absolute truths, and truths don't change.

Well, that's a problem, CL. What is "absolute truth" has a pretty high bar. One plus one equals two is hard to exclude from that but Mary got pregnant with Jesus through the Holy Spirit is a far stretch to say the least. What do you have to justify that claim? How is that claim any different from the Muslim claims you find so abhorrent?

Lol how is believing that Mary got pregnant via the Holy Spirit different from believing that stoning adulterers is good and needs to be implemented worldwide? Come on, AFTT. Surely you see a difference? I understand you don't believe that about Mary, and that's totally fine of course. But that is not the same as killing someone by throwing stones at them because they slept with their husband's friend or something... and forcing the rest of the world to follow suit. 

I think once you start hurting/killing other people and/or forcing them to believe the same things you believe, a definite line has been crossed when it comes to religion. It's not all the same.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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#14
RE: Disturbing/discouraging video about Islam.
If the 'Extremist' 5% of the Muslims are willing to kill as many of the rest of the Muslims to get the survivors to go along with their take on the faith, does it really matter what that 95% believes ??
 The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it. 




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#15
RE: Disturbing/discouraging video about Islam.
(November 18, 2015 at 6:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(November 18, 2015 at 6:24 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: Well, that's a problem, CL. What is "absolute truth" has a pretty high bar. One plus one equals two is hard to exclude from that but Mary got pregnant with Jesus through the Holy Spirit is a far stretch to say the least. What do you have to justify that claim? How is that claim any different from the Muslim claims you find so abhorrent?

Lol how is believing that Mary got pregnant via the Holy Spirit different from believing that stoning adulterers is good and needs to be implemented worldwide? Come on, AFTT. Surely you see a difference?

Actually, I don't see a difference because you got got both beliefs from the same source. If you trust the source, why would you accept one while rejecting the other? How do you decide one part of your holy book is absolute truth while another is crap?
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

Albert Einstein
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#16
RE: Disturbing/discouraging video about Islam.
(November 18, 2015 at 6:59 pm)AFTT47 Wrote:
(November 18, 2015 at 6:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Lol how is believing that Mary got pregnant via the Holy Spirit different from believing that stoning adulterers is good and needs to be implemented worldwide? Come on, AFTT. Surely you see a difference?

Actually, I don't see a difference because you got got both beliefs from the same source. If you trust the source, why would you accept one while rejecting the other? How do you decide one part of your holy book is absolute truth while another is crap?

The source where Catholic teachings come from is Church Doctrine. And it does not teach that stoning people to death is good.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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#17
RE: Disturbing/discouraging video about Islam.
(November 18, 2015 at 7:00 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(November 18, 2015 at 6:59 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: Actually, I don't see a difference because you got got both beliefs from the same source. If you trust the source, why would you accept one while rejecting the other? How do you decide one part of your holy book is absolute truth while another is crap?

The source where Catholic teachings come from is Church Doctrine. And it does not teach that stoning people to death is good.

Was Church Doctrine in affect during the Inquisition?
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

Albert Einstein
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#18
RE: Disturbing/discouraging video about Islam.
(November 18, 2015 at 6:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Lol how is believing that Mary got pregnant via the Holy Spirit different from believing that stoning adulterers is good and needs to be implemented worldwide?

If you go by the OT, and quite a lot of christians do just that, you got the same beauty. I seem to remember to have posted some vids of evangelical pastors preaching that killing gays by stoning is perfectly all right and what god would want them to do. These vids can be easily found by a simple websearch.

Truth is, the radicals of each religion have a lot of vileness in their arsenal. All their holy books keep the well stocked. Christian, jewish or muslim.
[Image: Bumper+Sticker+-+Asheville+-+Praise+Dog3.JPG]
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#19
RE: Disturbing/discouraging video about Islam.
(November 18, 2015 at 7:09 pm)AFTT47 Wrote:
(November 18, 2015 at 7:00 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The source where Catholic teachings come from is Church Doctrine. And it does not teach that stoning people to death is good.

Was Church Doctrine  in affect during the Inquisition?

That's what I'm trying to say. The inquisition, the burning of heretics, all that stuff were practices of the time, but they were not coming from doctrinal laws. Traditions and practices can and do change over time with the culture/etc. Dogmas do not.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
Reply
#20
RE: Disturbing/discouraging video about Islam.
(November 18, 2015 at 5:22 pm)Napoléon Wrote:
(November 18, 2015 at 5:14 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Younger generations are becoming less and less religious, I can't seem to find any friend who even goes to church regularly, but that is not the case with Muslims - I wonder if it has to do with immigration, or with some of them having proper Islamic schools even in countries like England?

From an English point of view, it appears to me to be down to their sense of identity. I get the real vibe that a lot of young muslims identify as "muslim first". By that I mean, they consider themselves muslim before they consider themselves English. Might seem a strange thing to say seen as one is a religion and the other a nationality (the stupidity of it is not lost on me), but the reality is that a lot of muslims in my experience have this kind of mindset. Or at the very least seem to.

Whenever I see groups of young muslim lads they seem very close knit. Even when they don't seem to know each other they still shake hands when greeting. I've seen shitloads of young muslims acting all pally with each other and saying "what up cuz?" and all this other shite. The one guy I went to uni with would speak to me every day, I'd greet him EVERY DAY. I thought we got on quite well. But he never ever shook my hand when we met, he never ever showed the same enthusiasm when he saw me. But he saw another random muslim guy in the hallway that he only knew by acquaintance and acted as though they were best buds.

People who don't often see this kind of thing will probably think it pointless nonsense that doesn't mean anything. But to me it's blatantly obvious that shit goes on behind closed doors and muslim families IMHO absolutely must be propounding and reinforcing a sentiment of "us and them", especially with the younger generations.
According to the Koran muslims are not supposed to have non-muslim friends or do what non-muslims tell them to do.  So by definition if a person identifies himself as a muslim why would you expect him to consider you as his friend?

Remember, you are dealing with Middle Eastern religious and cultural beliefs.  So even if the believer is not Jewish or Arabian he is expected to comply with those beliefs without exception.  http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law...13-15.html

If a person says that he's religious but isn't a bigot then he's lying about being religious.

As Paul said in Galatians 1:8-9 (NKJV) = "8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed."

Therefore, expecting a muslim to be your friend if you are not one is expecting him to turn his back on his doctrine which prohibits that and will cause him to end up in Islamic hell.
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