A question about hell

[dyresand]

Jesus said 'we'/Man will be consumed/destroyed by Hell fire. Meaning we will be sent to Hell to die.
However the bible says Hell is forever, and Satan will be given 'eternal life' to be punished in Hell fire forever.

So there's no literal "realm of eternal torment"? I wish God had cleared that up, could've prevented a lot of stress.

Don't give  it much thought it's a bunch of bullshit. The OT says there is no hell you would just be scorned for awhile before being let into heaven.
The idea of hell came around as a late addition along with jeebus.

[Chad32]

You mean because people who wrote the books say their god says so. The best we ever get is second hand information at best. Though even the dead sea scrolls aren't original documents, so we don't even have second hand information.

Speak for yourself. I got first hand info. Everything I know about hell was experienced long before I picked up a bible and studied it. I learned about Hell, by experience and then read my bible that confirmed what I learned.
http://atheistforums.org/thread-15622.html

If you truly want to know what Hell is like simply ask God to send you.. just know that He has promised anyone who wants to go, a trip there. (just not always a trip back)

Is Satan a person? Is Yahweh? I'd say neither are, but I'm not a believer.

they are not. So then why would your 'person' rule apply to satan's time in Hell?

Are you talking about Satan, who told us we could be better than what we are,

better how? Better like The Taliban, ISIS, Nazis? or better like North Korea, the KKK or Hirohito's Japan? How is this better than being able to spend time with God face to Face? How is constant war Better, poverty, sickness, and hardship 'better?'

Yahweh who cursed us?

cursed how child birth and work?

I'd say the person who caused us so much pain should be severely punished, but I think we have differing opinions on who is at fault. Assuming either of those individuals are real.

So what should be done to the one who caused all this pain and suffering? Eternity in Hell?

Well hell is a christian belief, so of course it wouldn't be mentioned in the six day creation, but the six day creation acts like the rest of the universe took a day to create because people back then didn't realize what the stars actually are.

what???

If I don't have free will, I can't be held accountable for anything. So there won't be any judgement. You may have a different idea of what free will is.

Who says?
Did slaves have free will? Were they ever given 'choice' over anything? and if they abused said choices were they not ever held accountable?

What philosophical delusion do you live in that slaves were never held accountable to the limited choices they/we are given?

Many people claim to be able to speak directly to their god of choice, but none have been able to show the guy.

Well for something to exist, it has to be a person, place, thing, or idea. Places can be spooky. Things can be dangerous. Ideas can be off the wall at times. None of those things can want anything.

Childbirth. Work. Mortality. Death. Thorns. Predation. All manner of things your god lets happen because anyone dares to not be completely dependent on him.

The Taliban and ISIS are religious groups worhiping the same Abrahamic god you do. Nazis were religious. North Korea is a dictatorship, much like your god's views of how things work. I'm not actually familiar with Hirohito. The worst places in the world tend to be places of extreme religious beliefs, or places where one person or a small group of people hold all the power. Something not unlike the kind of system your god believes in. Where he holds all the power, and everyone who takes one step out of line dies. if we think people like Kim Jong Un are so horrible, is it any wonder why people would think someone like Yahweh is horrible too? The irony is that the better countries in the world tend to be those who don't have dictators or religious fundamentalists running the show.

I would never inflict an eternity of suffering for finite crimes. That would be evil.

If an abused slave tries to run away, the problem isn't that he's a bad disobedient slave. The problem is that he was enslaved at all.

[Drich]

Speak for yourself. I got first hand info. Everything I know about hell was experienced long before I picked up a bible and studied it. I learned about Hell, by experience and then read my bible that confirmed what I learned.
http://atheistforums.org/thread-15622.html

If you truly want to know what Hell is like simply ask God to send you.. just know that He has promised anyone who wants to go, a trip there. (just not always a trip back)

they are not. So then why would your 'person' rule apply to satan's time in Hell?

better how? Better like The Taliban, ISIS, Nazis? or better like North Korea, the KKK or Hirohito's Japan? How is this better than being able to spend time with God face to Face? How is constant war Better, poverty, sickness, and hardship 'better?'

cursed how child birth and work?

So what should be done to the one who caused all this pain and suffering? Eternity in Hell?

what???
Who says?
Did slaves have free will? Were they ever given 'choice' over anything? and if they abused said choices were they not ever held accountab?

Many people claim to be able to speak directly to their god of choice, but none have been able to show the guy.

Well for something to exist, it has to be a person, place, thing, or idea. Places can be spooky. Things can be dangerous. Ideas can be off the wall at times. None of those things can want anything.

Childbirth. Work. Mortality. Death. Thorns. Predation. All manner of things your god lets happen because anyone dares to not be completely dependent on him.

The Taliban and ISIS are religious groups worhiping the same Abrahamic god you do. Nazis were religious. North Korea is a dictatorship, much like your god's views of how things work. I'm not actually familiar with Hirohito. The worst places in the world tend to be places of extreme religious beliefs, or places where one person or a small group of people hold all the power. Something not unlike the kind of system your god believes in. Where he holds all the power, and everyone who takes one step out of line dies. if we think people like Kim Jong Un are so horrible, is it any wonder why people would think someone like Yahweh is horrible too? The irony is that the better countries in the world tend to be those who don't have dictators or religious fundamentalists running the show.

I would never inflict an eternity of suffering for finite crimes. That would be evil.

If an abused slave tries to run away, the problem isn't that he's a bad disobedient slave. The problem is that he was enslaved at all.

Maybe God is not something small enough to be shown, but something you have to go to see. (Not to mention no other religion offers access to its 'god' unless you claim to be a prophet or emissary. Not even OT Judaism, You are just pretending to know what your talking about)

So youre saying a person can never want anything..

So is it your assumption that those who do follow God don't have to deal with those things?

ISIS and the Taliban do not worship the God of Abraham. They claim to worship the God of Abraham. That is the difference between being a fighter pilot and just telling everyone you are. just because you play ace's high on line does not mean you are a fighter pilot, nor does it give you the right to claim to be one. Hirihito was the Japanese Emperor who decided to bomb pearl harbor and also decided not to fight WWII in accordance with the Genevia convention. The point I was making by citing two religions who men use for evil and two non religious goverments where men used evil to claim power, is to show a commonality, that evil exists with or with the pretense of religion. The commonality is evil hearted men.

If someone killed an immortal being, how is that a finite crime? Now what if 'someone' killed a whole planet's worth of Immortal beings? Now what if someone kill every Immortal being from the time a planet hosted the first couple to the very last immortal being on said planet to ever be created? How could one who intentionally/with malice killed a whole Species of immortals ever atone for his crime? in your **Cough/Joke** "Morality" would you execute said guilty Immortal or would you give him life in prison without parole?

Who said anything about a slave running away? I said slave do not have free will, is that correct??? in the liberties given a slave, is a slave still not responsible for the choices he makes if he takes his liberties too far???
For instance, say a slave owner offered a slave a wife and told him he could have marry any girl that would have him, but instead, he rapes some young girl and forces her to be his wife. Do you think that slave is not responsible for his actions? Do you think he will not be held accountable for his actions even if he does not have 'free will?"

Since you can't be bothered to put in a few quote tags I'd thought I'd do the same.

[dyresand]

Many people claim to be able to speak directly to their god of choice, but none have been able to show the guy.

Well for something to exist, it has to be a person, place, thing, or idea. Places can be spooky. Things can be dangerous. Ideas can be off the wall at times. None of those things can want anything.

Childbirth. Work. Mortality. Death. Thorns. Predation. All manner of things your god lets happen because anyone dares to not be completely dependent on him.

The Taliban and ISIS are religious groups worhiping the same Abrahamic god you do. Nazis were religious. North Korea is a dictatorship, much like your god's views of how things work. I'm not actually familiar with Hirohito. The worst places in the world tend to be places of extreme religious beliefs, or places where one person or a small group of people hold all the power. Something not unlike the kind of system your god believes in. Where he holds all the power, and everyone who takes one step out of line dies. if we think people like Kim Jong Un are so horrible, is it any wonder why people would think someone like Yahweh is horrible too? The irony is that the better countries in the world tend to be those who don't have dictators or religious fundamentalists running the show.

I would never inflict an eternity of suffering for finite crimes. That would be evil.

If an abused slave tries to run away, the problem isn't that he's a bad disobedient slave. The problem is that he was enslaved at all.

Maybe God is not something small enough to be shown, but something you have to go to see. (Not to mention no other religion offers access to its 'god' unless you claim to be a prophet or emissary. Not even OT Judaism, You are just pretending to know what your talking about)

So youre saying a person can never want anything..

So is it your assumption that those who do follow God don't have to deal with those things?

ISIS and the Taliban do not worship the God of Abraham. They claim to worship the God of Abraham. That is the difference between being a fighter pilot and just telling everyone you are. just because you play ace's high on line does not mean you are a fighter pilot, nor does it give you the right to claim to be one. Hirihito was the Japanese Emperor who decided to bomb pearl harbor and also decided not to fight WWII in accordance with the Genevia convention. The point I was making by citing two religions who men use for evil and two non religious goverments where men used evil to claim power, is to show a commonality, that evil exists with or with the pretense of religion. The commonality is evil hearted men.

If someone killed an immortal being, how is that a finite crime? Now what if 'someone' killed a whole planet's worth of Immortal beings? Now what if someone kill every Immortal being from the time a planet hosted the first couple to the very last immortal being on said planet to ever be created? How could one who intentionally/with malice killed a whole Species of immortals ever atone for his crime? in your **Cough/Joke** "Morality" would you execute said guilty Immortal or would you give him life in prison without parole?

Who said anything about a slave running away? I said slave do not have free will, is that correct??? in the liberties given a slave, is a slave still not responsible for the choices he makes if he takes his liberties too far???
For instance, say a slave owner offered a slave a wife and told him he could have marry any girl that would have him, but instead, he rapes some young girl and forces her to be his wife. Do you think that slave is not responsible for his actions? Do you think he will not be held accountable for his actions even if he does not have 'free will?"

Since you can't be bothered to put in a few quote tags I'd thought I'd do the same.

Because Dirch when it comes down to it let's say if god existed the notion of justice is thrown out the window.
You can go and pillage rape steal etc. then all you have to do is pray to god and accept jesus and be saved from your transgressions. 
With that way thinking it is dangerous yet your book says do no to this do not do that and why is that a country that is mostly christians and christians are a heavy majority in jail. While get this atheists and mostly secular non god believing countries have less crime and overall are doing much more better. One would wonder the idea of hell should scare anyone to getting on the right path but why is it that non believers and atheists make better christians than actual christians who follow the bible.

[Drich]

Jesus said 'we'/Man will be consumed/destroyed by Hell fire. Meaning we will be sent to Hell to die.
However the bible says Hell is forever, and Satan will be given 'eternal life' to be punished in Hell fire forever.

So there's no literal "realm of eternal torment"? I wish God had cleared that up, could've prevented a lot of stress.

eternal for man.. no.

If you could be bothered to read your bible like for instance everything/Anything Jesus ever said about hell you'd see that in Every single instance He said it was the place where the soul will be destroyed. Over and over again. "Fear not the one who can destroy the body, but fear the one who can destroy the body and soul in Hell." God is clear.

that said, 100, 1000, 10,000, a million or even a billion years, is still not an eternity...

The destruction of the soul (I personally feel) will depend on how 'evil' that soul was in life. For instance I think a aldof Hitler will be in Hell a lot longer than some poor d-bag atheist who did not want to give up porn and weed, and came up with all sorts of 'loop holes/reason' he thought a 'good God' would not send him to hell. Even so, destruction comes in the way of waves of brutal panic and torment till the thin threads that hold a mind together simple get consumed/being eaten by hell fire. again if this were second years or eons it still does not count as an eternity.

[Drich]

Maybe God is not something small enough to be shown, but something you have to go to see. (Not to mention no other religion offers access to its 'god' unless you claim to be a prophet or emissary. Not even OT Judaism, You are just pretending to know what your talking about)

So youre saying a person can never want anything..

So is it your assumption that those who do follow God don't have to deal with those things?

ISIS and the Taliban do not worship the God of Abraham. They claim to worship the God of Abraham. That is the difference between being a fighter pilot and just telling everyone you are. just because you play ace's high on line does not mean you are a fighter pilot, nor does it give you the right to claim to be one. Hirihito was the Japanese Emperor who decided to bomb pearl harbor and also decided not to fight WWII in accordance with the Genevia convention. The point I was making by citing two religions who men use for evil and two non religious goverments where men used evil to claim power, is to show a commonality, that evil exists with or with the pretense of religion. The commonality is evil hearted men.

If someone killed an immortal being, how is that a finite crime? Now what if 'someone' killed a whole planet's worth of Immortal beings? Now what if someone kill every Immortal being from the time a planet hosted the first couple to the very last immortal being on said planet to ever be created? How could one who intentionally/with malice killed a whole Species of immortals ever atone for his crime? in your **Cough/Joke** "Morality" would you execute said guilty Immortal or would you give him life in prison without parole?

Who said anything about a slave running away? I said slave do not have free will, is that correct??? in the liberties given a slave, is a slave still not responsible for the choices he makes if he takes his liberties too far???
For instance, say a slave owner offered a slave a wife and told him he could have marry any girl that would have him, but instead, he rapes some young girl and forces her to be his wife. Do you think that slave is not responsible for his actions? Do you think he will not be held accountable for his actions even if he does not have 'free will?"

Since you can't be bothered to put in a few quote tags I'd thought I'd do the same.

Because Dirch when it comes down to it let's say if god existed the notion of justice is thrown out the window.
You can go and pillage rape steal etc. then all you have to do is pray to god and accept jesus and be saved from your transgressions. 
With that way thinking it is dangerous yet your book says do no to this do not do that and why is that a country that is mostly christians and christians are a heavy majority in jail. While get this atheists and mostly secular non god believing countries have less crime and overall are doing much more better. One would wonder the idea of hell should scare anyone to getting on the right path but why is it that non believers and atheists make better christians than actual christians who follow the bible.

Can you put me back on your ignore list please...

Just incase you serious sandy, The God of the bible does not judge us by 'morality.' Our righteousness has nothing to do with whether or not we are 'good people.'

That said, Most people believe God judges us on morality. That is why really bad people (people in jail for murder and the like) tend to seek God/Be Christian. Because they know they fail to even meet the stands of Sodom and Gamorrah (the eurpoean countries with low crime rates you are boasting about.)
Those poor fools think that because they have their own 'morals' and can abide by them, they are exempt from God's judgement/don't need God. so the people who see themselves as 'moral' don't tend/need to be Christian because they have fooled themselves with their own self righteousness and pride.

But, again... God does not judge us based on 'morality.' which means all morality counts for crap in the long run. God with the death of Christ eliminated the need to judge us based on what we do. rather the ONLY Qualification God requires is that we Honor the Death, burial and resurrection that Paid our way to eternal life. That's it. So it all basically boils down to those who want to go to Heaven will Honor god as instructed and those who want 'morality' get to go to hell with theirs.

[brewer]

OP. If you're at the bottom of the lake wouldn't it be more of a drowning thing? Maybe Satan provides fire proof water wings.

[Chad32]

Many people claim to be able to speak directly to their god of choice, but none have been able to show the guy.

Well for something to exist, it has to be a person, place, thing, or idea. Places can be spooky. Things can be dangerous. Ideas can be off the wall at times. None of those things can want anything.

Childbirth. Work. Mortality. Death. Thorns. Predation. All manner of things your god lets happen because anyone dares to not be completely dependent on him.

The Taliban and ISIS are religious groups worhiping the same Abrahamic god you do. Nazis were religious. North Korea is a dictatorship, much like your god's views of how things work. I'm not actually familiar with Hirohito. The worst places in the world tend to be places of extreme religious beliefs, or places where one person or a small group of people hold all the power. Something not unlike the kind of system your god believes in. Where he holds all the power, and everyone who takes one step out of line dies. if we think people like Kim Jong Un are so horrible, is it any wonder why people would think someone like Yahweh is horrible too? The irony is that the better countries in the world tend to be those who don't have dictators or religious fundamentalists running the show.

I would never inflict an eternity of suffering for finite crimes. That would be evil.

If an abused slave tries to run away, the problem isn't that he's a bad disobedient slave. The problem is that he was enslaved at all.

Maybe God is not something small enough to be shown, but something you have to go to see. (Not to mention no other religion offers access to its 'god' unless you claim to be a prophet or emissary. Not even OT Judaism, You are just pretending to know what your talking about)

So youre saying a person can never want anything..

So is it your assumption that those who do follow God don't have to deal with those things?

ISIS and the Taliban do not worship the God of Abraham. They claim to worship the God of Abraham. That is the difference between being a fighter pilot and just telling everyone you are. just because you play ace's high on line does not mean you are a fighter pilot, nor does it give you the right to claim to be one. Hirihito was the Japanese Emperor who decided to bomb pearl harbor and also decided not to fight WWII in accordance with the Genevia convention. The point I was making by citing two religions who men use for evil and two non religious goverments where men used evil to claim power, is to show a commonality, that evil exists with or with the pretense of religion. The commonality is evil hearted men.

If someone killed an immortal being, how is that a finite crime? Now what if 'someone' killed a whole planet's worth of Immortal beings? Now what if someone kill every Immortal being from the time a planet hosted the first couple to the very last immortal being on said planet to ever be created? How could one who intentionally/with malice killed a whole Species of immortals ever atone for his crime? in your **Cough/Joke** "Morality" would you execute said guilty Immortal or would you give him life in prison without parole?

Who said anything about a slave running away? I said slave do not have free will, is that correct??? in the liberties given a slave, is a slave still not responsible for the choices he makes if he takes his liberties too far???
For instance, say a slave owner offered a slave a wife and told him he could have marry any girl that would have him, but instead, he rapes some young girl and forces her to be his wife. Do you think that slave is not responsible for his actions? Do you think he will not be held accountable for his actions even if he does not have 'free will?"

Since you can't be bothered to put in a few quote tags I'd thought I'd do the same.

Other religions don't say that everyone can talk to god. That's only an issue if christians can prove that they're able to talk to god. Which they can't. You can find a lot of people claiming to talk to the same guy, yet are willing to kill each other over what that god is supposedly saying.

I meant a place, thing, or idea can't want anything. If he's not a person, then I'm not going to worship it. That's why I'm not a pantheist or something.

I don't see much difference between worship someone you can't prove exists, and claiming to. Either way you're folllowing what someone tells you, or what someone wrote in a book.

Yes evil people will do evil things regardless of religion. That wasn't what I meant when I talked about people bettering themselves, and you know that. I was showing that most of your examples are bunk anyway, because they're examples of dictators and religious extremists. It's not a very good point.

Killing an immortal being is a finite crime because it's a finite action. Spending a limited amount of time doing anything wrong is still a finite crime. Executing someone who does, or giving them life imprisonment would still be finite, unless he's immortal. Imprisoning an immortal being for eternity, or torturing them for eternity would be evil. Given eternity, you will eventually make up for wrongdoing. We don't imprison people depending on the estimated life someone might have had if they hadn't been killed.

I thought you were implying that we don't have free will. I believe we do. Though I also believe Yahweh has a very warped sense of morality which makes the idea of "sin" a moot point.

[ApeNotKillApe]

The destruction of the soul (I personally feel) will depend on how 'evil' that soul was in life. For instance I think a aldof Hitler will be in Hell a lot longer than some poor d-bag atheist who did not want to give up porn and weed, and came up with all sorts of 'loop holes/reason' he thought a 'good God' would not send him to hell. Even so, destruction comes in the way of waves of brutal panic and torment till the thin threads that hold a mind together simple get consumed/being eaten by hell fire. again if this were second years or eons it still does not count as an eternity.

Why would Hitler be in Hell?

[Lemonvariable72]

The destruction of the soul (I personally feel) will depend on how 'evil' that soul was in life. For instance I think a aldof Hitler will be in Hell a lot longer than some poor d-bag atheist who did not want to give up porn and weed, and came up with all sorts of 'loop holes/reason' he thought a 'good God' would not send him to hell. Even so, destruction comes in the way of waves of brutal panic and torment till the thin threads that hold a mind together simple get consumed/being eaten by hell fire. again if this were second years or eons it still does not count as an eternity.

Why would Hitler be in Hell?

Drich, you do you ever get afraid that Krishna will reincarnate you as a worm?