Guys: Would you ever rape and murder a girl?

[Catholic_Lady]

I know erections are involuntary, silly.  

But I didn't know you could get them even when you're not aroused (unless it's morning wood or something). I mean, I'm assuming a guy is not aroused when he's being assaulted and forced against his will.

I really wish I was free to post that piece I spoke of earlier, about the nineteen male rape victims' experiences. Basically, and without being rude, your assumption is dead wrong. Erection and orgasm are basically physiological and, as you say, involuntary. At the risk of getting too NSFW, try to imagine someone forcing you to get aroused against your will, so you can be used as a sex toy for their pleasure. In the words of one of the nineteen safe enough for me to quote:

I felt powerless and ashamed. I told some people but they kind of laughed it off. I think if gender roles were reversed it would’ve been taken more seriously.

I know that now, I'm not trying to deny. Just saying I was surprised to learn of this, that's all. I hope you didn't take offense. I'm not a guy, so I didn't know.

[Catholic_Lady]

I know erections are involuntary, silly.  

But I didn't know you could get them even when you're not aroused (unless it's morning wood or something). I mean, I'm assuming a guy is not aroused when he's being assaulted and forced against his will.

Without consent, why do you think arousal matters at all?

There are actually men who do get aroused from having things shoved up their ass. But if you want to do that to anyone, while you have them bound and bent over a chair, make sure you have their consent first! Also, use plenty of lube.

I don't think it matters. Rape is rape, arousal or not. All I was saying was that I'm surprised to learn men can get aroused during rape. The strawmen are strong in this thread.

[Cyberman]

I know that now, I'm not trying to deny. Just saying I was surprised to learn of this, that's all. I hope you didn't take offense. I'm not a guy, so I didn't know.

No, there's no offense - only a gate (). Just thought it needed clarifying.

[I_am_not_mafia]

Is it even possible to rape a man?

Yes. Male rape is a taboo subject but it does happen and the victims are even more ashamed to talk about it if they are raped by women.

Besides men also rape other men.

The reason I brought it up though is that the OP is implicitly assuming that it's not in the female nature to rape. Which actually answers his question. Morality stems from biology. And the fact that he was only thinking of raping girls is more disturbing because it sounds like something he actually would like to do.

[Silver]

I feel murdering someone is not necessarily wrong, but not because of my lack of religious belief.

Of course, I am also quite special, to which anyone here who has known me long enough can attest.

[GoHalos1993]

You're sick and I smell a troll

[Silver]

Yes, please continue along that line.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Over the course of this year, I have lost faith that a god exists because of insufficient evidence and applying my skepticism to my religion that I followed for so many years. But I have a problem... I was talking to my two cousins and they were saying how they would rape and murder a girl and dispose of her. (They are atheists as well) I've been thinking a lot recently about this. Since I'm an atheist now, I'm starting to feel like raping and murdering a girl isn't necessarily
"wrong". Fellow atheists: Is this truly "wrong". And if so, how is it wrong?  Atheists, would you do something like this? Why or why not, please explain...

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The Bible isn't against rape.  It's not against killing.  
The Koran isn't against rape.  It's not against  killing.

The Babylonian Talmud isn't against rape.  It's not against killing.
Most modern secular legal systems are against rape.  Not all of them are against killing.

[Aractus]

Simple. Hale was taught (part of the programming his sponge-brain absorbed, as I described above) that what he was saying was morally right, that he was in fact empathizing with the women because it's what was really "best" for them. His programming overrode his natural sense of empathy. That's a part of our evolutionary heritage, as well; it how we're able to go to war with the tribe over the hill, because our social programming has said that those Others aren't really people like us, but a threat.

Part of our evolutionary heritage was that men were the hunters and women were the gatherers.

How do you expect me to believe that behaviour follows belief in evolution, rather than belief following behaviour - especially when we see clearly pre-programmed behaviours in animals that are not taught to them? Like my cat grooming himself - no one showed him how to do it so how does he know how to do it if the behaviour itself is not evolutionary?

Hale's definition of rape would have been less conservative than in times gone past also you know. For example, the Bible says that men can take concubines - sex slaves. And back then certain societies viewed that as acceptable, and didn't view the behaviour as the abuse of women (or rape). In Hale's time though that was different, and even he in all likeliness would agree that having sex with a slave without regard to the slave's wishes would constitute rape. So we actually see the definition of rape broadening through the centuries.

To use your example, there was also once a time when if you were victorious in battle you could take the wives of your enemy as the spoils of war, and have sex with them. But now, we think that's rape.

My point is that the question of "would you ever rape a woman" depends very much on the person's view of social norms and what the definition of rape is. You have had people all throughout the ages who would empathetically say "no I would not rape a woman", and yet they conducted behaviours that we today would define as rape.

If I was alive 1500 years ago, who's to say what definition of rape I would know?

[Alex K]

Aractus, I think you're stretching the evo psych a bit there. They (hunter, gatherer) probably were tendencies, but not that exclusive. Also, men and women are not a speciation event, we carry mostly the same genes.

Shit why am I still posting in this fuckung thread, I'm sick of seeing it.