Confessions of a former Christian fundamentalist.

[Angrboda]

I think that's autocorrect. Either that, or this troll ran short of gas.

[Delicate]

That's like one bad theory leading you to reject ask of science

How is this proper English?

I got autocorrected. I meant to say all of science

[Jehanne]

Delicate

Well, I was raised as a Christian fundamentalist evangelical; attended a Biblical literalist church from before age 5 until I quit attending around my junior year in high school.  By then, the doubts were almost insurmountable.  Was drawn back into it during my college years, only to abandon it later on.  While in college, it was like an old drug habit; I had been "clean" for a few years, but loneliness and depression drew me back into it.  Christian fundamentalism is comforting and there are many social supports (including, meeting members of the opposite sex), which, from my experience, is magnetic for a lot of people.  It certainly was for me, but in the end, bullshit is still bullshit.

You're still blurring the distinction between loneliness-driven participation in social fundamentalism and actual fundamentalist beliefs.

The former is not real fundamentalism. So far as the latter, or makes no sense in rejecting fundamentalism to reject all of religion.

That's like one bad theory leading you to reject ask of science

Science, unlike religion, has self-correction mechanisms built into it; theories are always being tested and retested, all of the time.  Religion, unlike science, is not falsifiable.  Fundamentalists can always appeal to something like the Omphalos "hypothesis" (e.g., "Last Thursdayism") to keep their religious tenets intact.  My experience attests to the fact that religious fundamentalism is a meme; my parents infected me, and as a consequence, it was very hard for me later on in life to get away from it.  Of course, the social aspect of it is undeniable; after all, where else can you go to find "instant acceptance"?  If you don't believe me, try it!  Walk into a fundamentalist Baptism church sometime, be dressed in such a way as to look like others around you (and, so, if the men there are in dress shirts and ties, wear a dress shirt and tie, and if the women there are all wearing skirts, then wear a skirt and modest blouse), and Voilà!, complete strangers will come up to you, ask you how you are doing, like they are one of your good friends!  (And, from their perspective, you already are!)  Say that you profess their religion (i.e., "the Bible is inerrant, that is, without error of any kind"), and wow, they'll be inviting you over to their house, introducing their kids to your kids, and hey, is that adult son of yours looking for a girlfriend?!  Before long, you'll be going through their membership initiation, and in a few short weeks or months, be a member of their church, which is likely part of an even larger organization (which means, that if you move, you can continue to attend a church which is very similar)!  Your wedding and funeral needs will be taken care of for life, as long as you attend regularly, which means contributing regularly, also!

[Minimalist]

No one who deconverts is ever admitted to be a true Christian by evangelists or apologists.  Makes me wonder how many "real" Christians there really are.

Damned few.

[loganonekenobi]

But nevermind all that. The real salient point here is that your interest was primarily in socializing, and the question of the truth claims about reality which Christians (yes, even fundamentalists) purport to express hardly arises. So you weren't ever a fundamentalist.

That's not a fair assessment of who I was.  I really tried to believe in Christian Biblical literalism; the religion itself did provide me with emotional and mental comforts, but yes, the social aspect was equally compelling.  As I said, I used to read Josh McDowell (the "Evidence which demands a Verdict" series), and later on, Gary Habermas.  I had a New International Version Charles Ryrie study bible and would memorize whole chapters of the Bible for Bible camp.  I should mention that I was raised in Christian fundamentalism, but even as I began to drift away from it in high school and college, it was still very much an emotional and social experience for me, and it was, for a long time, hard to let go out it.  It was almost like I was addicted to a drug, and I went through periods of withdrawal as I was coming off of it; a lot of mental anguish.  Now, if I had married a Christian fundamentalist, I admit that I might still be with it, if only to please a potential wife, and in the process, save a potential marriage.

THey (the christians) will never be fair about anything as long as the path you took doesnt lead to what they want it to (being christian). They will only attack instead of try to understand other points of view. Dont take this guys shit. Most christians i have met will profess thier devotion to christ but in reality if the community part wasnt there they wouldnt be christian.

[Delicate]

Delicate

You're still blurring the distinction between loneliness-driven participation in social fundamentalism and actual fundamentalist beliefs.

The former is not real fundamentalism. So far as the latter, or makes no sense in rejecting fundamentalism to reject all of religion.

That's like one bad theory leading you to reject ask of science

Science, unlike religion, has self-correction mechanisms built into it; theories are always being tested and retested, all of the time.  Religion, unlike science, is not falsifiable.  Fundamentalists can always appeal to something like the Omphalos "hypothesis" (e.g., "Last Thursdayism") to keep their religious tenets intact.  My experience attests to the fact that religious fundamentalism is a meme; my parents infected me, and as a consequence, it was very hard for me later on in life to get away from it.  Of course, the social aspect of it is undeniable; after all, where else can you go to find "instant acceptance"?  If you don't believe me, try it!  Walk into a fundamentalist Baptism church sometime, be dressed in such a way as to look like others around you (and, so, if the men there are in dress shirts and ties, wear a dress shirt and tie, and if the women there are all wearing skirts, then wear a skirt and modest blouse), and Voilà!, complete strangers will come up to you, ask you how you are doing, like they are one of your good friends!  (And, from their perspective, you already are!)  Say that you profess their religion (i.e., "the Bible is inerrant, that is, without error of any kind"), and wow, they'll be inviting you over to their house, introducing their kids to your kids, and hey, is that adult son of yours looking for a girlfriend?!  Before long, you'll be going through their membership initiation, and in a few short weeks or months, be a member of their church, which is likely part of an even larger organization (which means, that if you move, you can continue to attend a church which is very similar)!  Your wedding and funeral needs will be taken care of for life, as long as you attend regularly, which means contributing regularly, also!

I find that religion, at least philosophically informed religion, does have self-corrective mechanisms. Perhaps you are operating on a misguided sense of religion.

Do you think you are unfairly generalizing about all kinds of religion based on your fundamentalist experiences?

I also find that religion is falsifiable. At least Christianity is. If you can prove, empirically, that Jesus didn't resurrect, Christianity is false.

So on multiple counts I think you're operating on a couple misguided views. Presumably these are beliefs your have learned from the new atheists. But I think you'll find on many counts the facts go in a different direction.

[Jehanne]

Science, unlike religion, has self-correction mechanisms built into it; theories are always being tested and retested, all of the time.  Religion, unlike science, is not falsifiable.  Fundamentalists can always appeal to something like the Omphalos "hypothesis" (e.g., "Last Thursdayism") to keep their religious tenets intact.  My experience attests to the fact that religious fundamentalism is a meme; my parents infected me, and as a consequence, it was very hard for me later on in life to get away from it.  Of course, the social aspect of it is undeniable; after all, where else can you go to find "instant acceptance"?  If you don't believe me, try it!  Walk into a fundamentalist Baptism church sometime, be dressed in such a way as to look like others around you (and, so, if the men there are in dress shirts and ties, wear a dress shirt and tie, and if the women there are all wearing skirts, then wear a skirt and modest blouse), and Voilà!, complete strangers will come up to you, ask you how you are doing, like they are one of your good friends!  (And, from their perspective, you already are!)  Say that you profess their religion (i.e., "the Bible is inerrant, that is, without error of any kind"), and wow, they'll be inviting you over to their house, introducing their kids to your kids, and hey, is that adult son of yours looking for a girlfriend?!  Before long, you'll be going through their membership initiation, and in a few short weeks or months, be a member of their church, which is likely part of an even larger organization (which means, that if you move, you can continue to attend a church which is very similar)!  Your wedding and funeral needs will be taken care of for life, as long as you attend regularly, which means contributing regularly, also!

I find that religion, at least philosophically informed religion, does have self-corrective mechanisms. Perhaps you are operating on a misguided sense of religion.

Do you think you are unfairly generalizing about all kinds of religion based on your fundamentalist experiences?

I also find that religion is falsifiable. At least Christianity is. If you can prove, empirically, that Jesus didn't resurrect, Christianity is false.

So on multiple counts I think you're operating on a couple misguided views. Presumably these are beliefs your have learned from the new atheists. But I think you'll find on many counts the facts go in a different direction.

Trying to "prove" that Jesus did not "resurrect" is like trying to prove that an alien abduction didn't happen.  It's impossible.  It's a burden of proof, on them and not on Us.  Maybe God became Man among of the one of the Aztecs of Central America?

[Delicate]

It's not impossible. Just difficult. Given a couple decades and developments, who knows what can be possible.

Besides, falsifiability is determined in principle, and practical difficulties don't mean something is in principle impossible.

So I don't think there's a case for unfalsifiability here.

[Jehanne]

It's not impossible. Just difficult. Given a couple decades and developments, who knows what can be possible.

Besides, falsifiability is determined in principle, and practical difficulties don't mean something is in principle impossible.

So I don't think there's a case for unfalsifiability here.

People do not rise from the dead; that's our experience.  Once you're declared to be clinically dead, absent a mistake, you remain dead.  In the case of Jesus, no medical doctor was on the scene to pronounce clinical death; we have no death certificate.  Having said that, I think that Jesus did die, and any so-called "visions" of him after that were bereavement visions, which got embellished over time.

[Angrboda]

Near impossibly difficult is all.