To call them autistic or people with autism

[Whateverist]

Ill go out on a limb and say "people with autism."

It just seems more dignified and does not reduce a person to just one thing they have.

Saying "person with autism" seems otherizes them somewhat less, and perhaps might not validate mistreatment of them in the same way.

The same reason that "Jewish person" is better than "Jew."

As strange as this may sound, I'm happy with autism. It gives me a ability to think in ways that people find difficult.

This brings up an interesting point.  In the case of Dwarfism at least there seems to be quite a resistance to invitro treatments which can make a person with the 'disorder' taller.  Same goes with deafness.  In these two cases at least there is quite a sense of community amongst those affected.  

I believe there may actually be some who would feel reluctant to cut mania out of their lives.  Some people extoll the creativity and production of those affected.  While I doubt that anyone would lobby in favor of depression, there are some who feel it deepens one's humanity (something better appreciated in hindsight no doubt).

So in at least some conditions often viewed as disabilities there is reason to wonder if the person affected holds it as a disability or is to some degree proud instead.  For those who feel positively about the condition it might actually feel awkward and uncomfortable to be addressed in a manner that signifies you hold their condition to be negative.

I'm not ready to concede the debate to the PC'ers quite yet.

[Whateverist]

Cthulu, I think from now on, when characterizing you it might be best to refer to you as a person with issues ..

---

.. regarding the way I refer to people's conditions.    

---

[MTL]

As strange as this may sound, I'm happy with autism. It gives me a ability to think in ways that people find difficult.

This brings up an interesting point.  In the case of Dwarfism at least there seems to be quite a resistance to invitro treatments which can make a person with the 'disorder' taller.  Same goes with deafness.  In these two cases at least there is quite a sense of community amongst those affected.  

I believe there may actually be some who would feel reluctant to cut mania out of their lives.  Some people extoll the creativity and production of those affected.  While I doubt that anyone would lobby in favor of depression, there are some who feel it deepens one's humanity (something better appreciated in hindsight no doubt).

So in at least some conditions often viewed as disabilities there is reason to wonder if the person affected holds it as a disability or is to some degree proud instead.  For those who feel positively about the condition it might actually feel awkward and uncomfortable to be addressed in a manner that signifies you hold their condition to be negative.

I'm not ready to concede the debate to the PC'ers quite yet.

yes absolutely.

Being gay is not a disorder, but because of "othering"
the "Pride" movement came along
and said,
"not only are we not abnormal, and not ashamed, but we are PROUD of what we are,
and would not be anything other than what we are, for the world."

This same attitude, as you observe, occurs in people who do suffer from what the rest of the world considers a medical abnormality or ailment, such as deafness, or dwarfism;

There are those who are affected, or in agreement with those who are affected,
who refuse to acknowledge any naturally occurring human condition as a disorder;
and in fact embrace it as a blessing.

perhaps they're right; indeed;

I have already posted about how I notice that plenty of so-called "normal" people
are often more helpless than people I have met who have "disabilities";

but on the other hand, there was an episode of "House m.d."
that touched on this issue,
where Dr. House was treating a woman who suffered with dwarfism,
along with her young daughter;

The woman was militantly proud of her dwarfism,
and that her daughter appeared to be similarly affected;

but when House found a treatable cause,
and offered it to the daughter,
the mother had to reconsider just how deep her militant stance really went:

Was she truly embracing her condition as a "gift" or blessing;
and if Yes,
was she really willing to allow her daughter to live life the same way
...even knowing it might be avoidable and a treatment may exist to allow her daughter to escape the condition??

EDIT:

Likewise the issue was touched upon in one of the sequels to "X-Men"
wherein a "cure" for "mutation" had been found
and mutants were coming out of hiding,
lining up for this "cure";

but were then shamed by "proud" mutants for doing so,
and not embracing the blessing of their gifts.

One of the main characters, "Rogue" seeks the cure,
because her particular mutation
...the ability to leech the life force out of anyone by mere skin-to-skin contact...
meant, for her, a life without physical contact,
which she regarded as anything but a blessing.

So it's interesting how this thread has made us consider:

What is a "disorder" and what is merely a "condition"
how much do those conditions or disorders define us,
how should we refer to them,
and is it okay for someone to want to be "normal" and shun as a disorder
what others say they should embrace as a blessing?

[Lemonvariable72]

I guess I was a person who taught, not a teacher.  I am a person who makes a garden, not a gardener.  Of course these things were elective unlike my being a person with maleness.

You might feel differently if those things were considered disorders and highly stigmatized.

Just sayin'.

People with autism are stigmatized to the point where we have a prime time hit TV show dedicated to making fun of us.

[MTL]

You might feel differently if those things were considered disorders and highly stigmatized.

Just sayin'.

People with autism are stigmatized to the point where we have a prime time hit TV show dedicated to making fun of us.

And women were stigmatized since the dawn of civilization.

It is still something of an insult:

" you run like a girl "

or calling a male by a female name or calling him a "bitch";
it's still an insult to be female.

TV stigmatized women for a long time;
we were either the dumb/slutty blonde, the girl next door, the ball-busting feminist, the docile housewife, a tease, a golddigger, etc.

[Lemonvariable72]

People with autism are stigmatized to the point where we have a prime time hit TV show dedicated to making fun of us.

And women were stigmatized since the dawn of civilization.

It is still something of an insult:

" you run like a girl "

or calling a male by a female name or calling him a "bitch";
it's still an insult to be female.

TV stigmatized women for a long time;
we were either the dumb/slutty blonde, the girl next door, the ball-busting feminist, the docile housewife, a tease, a golddigger, etc.

Your point is? You want to start a dick waiving competition about who is more oppressed? Tell me about the last time you were denied an education because you were a woman? Tell me about the time that nearly entire schools made fun of because you were a woman? Tell me the last you got fired for being a woman.
What your listing as insults are insults because they are abdications of your identity, hence if I say you look like a man its insulting. Just like you say I look like a woman its insulting. Hardly makes bbeing a woman a insult. Being called a bitch is a insult, so is being called a dick, or a prick. I use those words sometimes not because I want to insult women, but because their colloquial definitions match what I'm describing. When I call you a cunt, its not because I'm envisioning a vagina, its describing a whiny person with no back bone. It really has nothing to do with gender beyond the fact that historically people used people genetalia to refer to the worst aspects of both gender stereo types. Both gender types. Unfortunately equality is a bitch when everyone is being shit on.
As for your last part? That's hardly sexism, that shity characterizing of people you actually do meet. You say the same thing across all genders and races. You have the douchy pick up artist, the dumb jock, the pick up artist, the thug, and that is just off the top of my head. Want more women in writing? Cut the I'm a victim bullshit and get girls to pursue their own goals. Be it writing or having a family or being a fucking astronaut. Women can be whatever they want just as much as a man can, and the last thing they need is a bunch of people infantilizing them and saying they are perpetual victims.
Also, I can think of a number of tv shows that do not follow those dumb characterizations at all. I.E star trek Voyager, star trek deep space nine, battle star Galactica, firefly, forever. And that is just what I can name off the top of my head. You have to remember TV shows use characterizing extensively and get they often appeal to the lowest common denominator.

[Jackalope]

What is a "disorder" and what is merely a "condition"

Clinically, what differentiates the two is that a "disorder" causes the person distress and has a negative effect on how they live their lives. (that's my definition as a layperson, the DSM4 and DSM5 word it differently but I can't be arsed to look it up)

I can use myself as an example.

Clinically, I have bipolar disorder type 1 with psychotic features co-morbid with post-traumatic stress disorder.

Looking at it symptomatically -

My mood instability causes me significant distress and has a moderate impact on how I function.
The anxiety from PTSD causes extreme distress and has a profound impact on important life functions.
My visual and auditory hallucinations are both infrequent and mild, do not cause significant distress (any more), and have almost zero impact on how I function. They're more of a curiosity to me.

Myself and my health care providers consider the first two symptomatic of disorder, and the third not.

[Jackalope]

Regarding relative degree of stigmatization, I don't find that particularly useful.

I think we can all agree that people can be really fucking shitty to those who are different, and that's shameful.

[MTL]

And women were stigmatized since the dawn of civilization.

It is still something of an insult:

" you run like a girl "

or calling a male by a female name or calling him a "bitch";
it's still an insult to be female.

TV stigmatized women for a long time;
we were either the dumb/slutty blonde, the girl next door, the ball-busting feminist, the docile housewife, a tease, a golddigger, etc.

Your point is? You want to start a dick waiving competition about who is more oppressed? Tell me about the last time you were denied an education because you were a woman? Tell me about the time that nearly entire schools made fun of because you were a woman? Tell me the last you got fired for being a woman.
What your listing as insults are insults because they are abdications of your identity, hence if I say you look like a man its insulting. Just like you say I look like a woman its insulting. Hardly makes bbeing a woman a insult. Being called a bitch is a insult, so is being called a dick, or a prick. I use those words sometimes not because I want to insult women, but because their colloquial definitions match what I'm describing. When I call you a cunt, its not because I'm envisioning a vagina, its describing a whiny person with no back bone. It really has nothing to do with gender beyond the fact that historically people used people genetalia to refer to the worst aspects of both gender stereo types. Both gender types. Unfortunately equality is a bitch when everyone is being shit on.
As for your last part? That's hardly sexism, that shity characterizing of people you actually do meet. You say the same thing across all genders and races. You have the douchy pick up artist, the dumb jock, the pick up artist, the thug, and that is just off the top of my head. Want more women in writing? Cut the I'm a victim bullshit and get girls to pursue their own goals. Be it writing or having a family or being a fucking astronaut. Women can be whatever they want just as much as a man can, and the last thing they need is a bunch of people infantilizing them and saying they are perpetual victims.
Also, I can think of a number of tv shows that do not follow those dumb characterizations at all. I.E star trek Voyager, star trek deep space nine, battle star Galactica, firefly, forever. And that is just what I can name off the top of my head. You have to remember TV shows use characterizing extensively and get they often appeal to the lowest common denominator.

No, my intention was not to start a dick-waving contest,
(especially since I raised the point of being female as being stigmatized, and last I checked, we don't have dicks).

Perhaps I should have cited some other examples, but I was tired;
and this is not the first time I've regretted making a post that was inadequate or poorly-thought-out
simply because my mental focus wasn't up to snuff at that moment.

And you're absolutely right about that last paragraph of my comment;
that wasn't really on-point.


So my apologies if my comment was misleading.

My point was simply that lots of people are stigmatized for lots of things,

(and Yes, I wanted to point out that women have been stigmatized since the dawn of civilization,
probably before any other group, was,
and long before the advent of television;

and as far as women having equality;
well, yes, we legally do,
just like black people now have,
yet undeniably both women, and black people,
still feel the widespread effects of historic stigma;

black people still hear white people locking their car doors as they walk past,
and women are still paid less than men are, for doing the same jobs.

The Supreme Court ruled that the LBGT have the right to marry in all 50 States,
yet they still encounter a lot of resistance when they try to marry and live their lives.

Simply having legal equality does not mean the stigma goes away).

But the bottom line is this: I actually absolutely agree with you:

I've never liked the "dick-waving contest" as you so vividly phrased it,
that occurs between different minority groups,
regarding who is most persecuted, oppressed, or stigmatized,
especially since there is plenty of prejudice rife between those groups, as well.

...so I'm aggrieved to realize my post actually sounded like that was my angle;
I simply wanted to point out that there are lots of people who are stigmatized for lots of reasons.


My intent was certainly NOT to trivialize the amount of stigma directed at those struggling with Autism.

Especially since I have a young  nephew who was just diagnosed with Autism, himself.


However, I must argue:

If you're referring to Sheldon on the Big Bang Theory,

First of all, I don't think they've ever specifically acknowledged his character as being Autistic/Aspergers;

and secondly,
what really makes his character work is his towering ego and sense of entitlement.

Also: that show CONSTANTLY makes fun of the latent homosexual relationship between Howard and Rajesh,
...meanwhile Sheldon's character is played by an openly gay actor who is depicted as straight.

That entire show thrives on stereotypes...Penny is the dumb blonde, Amy is the frumpy brainy misfit, Raj is the foreigner, Howard is the jewish boy who still lives with his grating mother, Leonard is the diminuitive asthmatic nerd.

But my point is that autism is arguably not really what makes Sheldon's character a target.
Had he simply been antisocial or quietly brilliant, that wouldn't have made his character work, on the show.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

And women were stigmatized since the dawn of civilization.

It is still something of an insult:

" you run like a girl "

or calling a male by a female name or calling him a "bitch";
it's still an insult to be female.

TV stigmatized women for a long time;
we were either the dumb/slutty blonde, the girl next door, the ball-busting feminist, the docile housewife, a tease, a golddigger, etc.

Your point is? You want to start a dick waiving competition about who is more oppressed? Tell me about the last time you were denied an education because you were a woman? Tell me about the time that nearly entire schools made fun of because you were a woman? Tell me the last you got fired for being a woman.
What your listing as insults are insults because they are abdications of your identity, hence if I say you look like a man its insulting. Just like you say I look like a woman its insulting. Hardly makes bbeing a woman a insult. Being called a bitch is a insult, so is being called a dick, or a prick. I use those words sometimes not because I want to insult women, but because their colloquial definitions match what I'm describing. When I call you a cunt, its not because I'm envisioning a vagina, its describing a whiny person with no back bone. It really has nothing to do with gender beyond the fact that historically people used people genetalia to refer to the worst aspects of both gender stereo types. Both gender types. Unfortunately equality is a bitch when everyone is being shit on.
As for your last part? That's hardly sexism, that shity characterizing of people you actually do meet. You say the same thing across all genders and races. You have the douchy pick up artist, the dumb jock, the pick up artist, the thug, and that is just off the top of my head. Want more women in writing? Cut the I'm a victim bullshit and get girls to pursue their own goals. Be it writing or having a family or being a fucking astronaut. Women can be whatever they want just as much as a man can, and the last thing they need is a bunch of people infantilizing them and saying they are perpetual victims.
Also, I can think of a number of tv shows that do not follow those dumb characterizations at all. I.E star trek Voyager, star trek deep space nine, battle star Galactica, firefly, forever. And that is just what I can name off the top of my head. You have to remember TV shows use characterizing extensively and get they often appeal to the lowest common denominator.

home run

edit;
I don't mean to offend, but some women seriously need to get rid of this victim complex of theirs.